No way to get proper heat sinks in Europe

[almansor]

Hello Guys,

I am located in germany, and here it seems we have the same problem you in the US had some years ago concerning getting your hands on a propper heat sink.

The only heat sinks available here, are the cpu cooler types. You cant even find a chinese cooler in german ebay...they are not here yet.

The whole COB hype has not arrived here yet, so the only real LED heat sinks you can get here are the 20 to 30w max types.

Ordering from the US is not an option due to custom taxes...they are astronomical. I have to say, this is my first build and I am a little bit on a budget here, so I dont wanna spend more than 20 bucks on a single heat sink, concidering I need 6 of them.

So I have to look for alternatives. First thing that comes to mind is an arctic alpine 64 thingy...but I do not feel comfortable in taking the risk of smoking up my cobs when the fan kicks the bucket, not to mention the additional wiring and energy cost and all the psychological hassle that comes with that method of cooling.

I want to keep it simple: just a Vero 29D driven to hell and back with 1400mA, with a proper cooling device. But so it seems, if I dont want to go active, Im limited to passive CPU heat sinks. Which sucks pretty much, since they all seem to be way to small and inappropriate for a big chip like the vero 29.

Does anybody have any suggestions to fix this problem? Would be much appreciated.

[Jolly Green Giant]

since I don't know European suppliers... do you know someone/have a friend that owns a milling machine or works at some sort of tool and dye shop?? I would try to find some cheap or scrap chunks of aluminum and have that person make a few... whether it's 6 little ones out of scrap chunks or two longer heat sinks that can handle 3 veros each.. it all depends on what you can find for aluminum and what they are able to do..... the more surface area the better... a solid chunk would work.. but milling the fins is always better..

[almansor]

Thanks for your quick reply JGG.

Lets be real for a moment. I need a sink, that sais to me, in mesurable facts, that the sink can handle the heat.
I could ask the scrapyard dog if he has an idea...but...

so my question is:

What did you guys do, before those heat sinks were available?

It is just a joke to me, that you can get those COBs from those vendors...without them providing the proper equipment to install those chips. Its like they sell you the parts for a microwave without the housing, so you end up nuking yourself and everything that is around those parts, insted of nuking the food.
This is totaly a chicken and egg thing, but that we know where the egg came from, but there is no nest or coop to keep the egg warm. You get my drift?

I opened this thread to ask you guys how you did it in the elden days, before the proper heat sinks were available.

The one with the milling machine was a good one. I could even solder some metal spatulas to the cob, if it gets the job done...but who can say that for sure?

I need a real solution. Something with CPU coolers or stuff like that.

Like I said, how did you do it, back then, when those heat sinks werent even invented?

[majorana]

I had heatsinks sent together with my COBs directly from where they're produced, Shenzhen, China. KingBrite is a reputable Alibaba source for both.

Given their weight shipping isn't cheap, but it was the cheapest option possible.

You can, of course, go for active cooling, in which case CPU heatsinks with their fans are very accessible (both in terms of availability and price.) I chose to pay the extra costs because in my experience fans can never be 100% reliable (and, before a complete breakdown, the noise can be a liability.) There is no other secret hack you're missing.

It's also why my next build will be with strips/PCBs. The cost of the heatsinks, when calculating also what they added to shipping, ended up being a major % of the total expense for my Vero29 build.

[almansor]

I feel you!

But there is something utterly wrong with that equasion - a complex piece of engineering and a chunk of metal...and the chunk of metal is more expensive...especially in shipping and taxes and stuff...

Makes no sense.

So there has to be an alternative.

If someone has a suggestion, please partake, cause Im at my wits end.

It should be so simple....but its not.

edit: @ majorana

I have seen setups with PBCs on Youtube. I have to say, they look kind of small and funny compared to high sodiums or Cobs. You know what I mean. Big emiters of energy against small stripes. Are there datasheets available? Because, if those little stripes would work, pigs could probably fly...pardon me french.

It would be the next generation. Could you back that up?

[bvolt]

Hey guys,

Check out growmau5’ and greengene’s first cob builds... they’re simple extruded bar anodized aluminum - I think it’s 5.886” x 1 ft per cob, with 12”, 12v fans (at .5A) or 2 of ‘em if you’re worried about fan-failure (rare).

There’s nothing wrong with this configuration. The PC industry has been using this thermal management method for decades.

[majorana]

But there is something utterly wrong with that equasion - a complex piece of engineering and a chunk of metal...and the chunk of metal is more expensive...especially in shipping and taxes and stuff[...] Makes no sense.

I have seen setups with PBCs on Youtube. I have to say, they look kind of small and funny compared to high sodiums or Cobs. You know what I mean. Big emiters of energy against small stripes. Are there datasheets available? Because, if those little stripes would work, pigs could probably fly...pardon me french.

It would be the next generation. Could you back that up?

Back up what? LED isn't magic, it's simply more efficient, by which I mean it generates for equal wattage less heat and more light. 600-700W of good LED are generally considered to give you the same output as 1000W of HPS.

Relatively-serious heat dissipation for COBs is necessary because they concentrate significant amounts of power to a very small space. A hypothetical COB would generally run 50W in the area of a square inch. A foot long strip would have a surface area 12 times bigger and use half the wattage. A PCB would be about half-way between the two. A heatsink would still be a good idea, but much simpler (i.e., even a simple sheet or U channel should do.) There's no magic, just a question of geometry.

These are all rough approximations, you can find data sheets to back all of it up in specific detail.

There’s nothing wrong with this configuration. The PC industry has been using this thermal management method for decades.

Active cooling is perfectly fine, but as every PC user knows at one point or another the start failing (and the noise can become a liability) and then fail (and heat can become deadly.) I, personally, had some Roleadro lights (both COB and SMD) which had terrible fans that were very noisy. But Roleadro isn't really about quality, and I suppose PC fans are made with higher quality control.

Judging from my experience with computers / laptops, It usually takes a couple of years of constant use for the fans to get funky. I doubt most lighting fixtures people are building here would be used for more than 1-3 years before they're upgraded to the next latest-and-greatest, and who knows where technology will be in 2020. It isn't that bad of an idea, I was simply a bit traumatized by Roleadro.

[almansor]

Thank you guys for your input.

Seems like I am stuck...like the whole of Europe is stuck with CPU Cooler solutions.

@majorana: when I said "back that up" I meant: do you know a reliable product and do you have accesss to datasheets that you can provide via links.

Like I said, this technology would be just perfect, if it really works. Less heat with the same ppfd output...Im all for that.

You said, you would build your next grow on that technology, so you must have a rough estimate concerning how much of those PBCs you need, what color temperature, energy cost, distance to the plants...all that stuff you plan in, when you build a new unit. Lets start with the source.
Where do you get those PBCs from?

@bvolt: thank you for that suggestion. but how would i get my hands on that big chunk of specific metal under 20 bucks?
I am dependend on the stuff you can get on ebay (exept chinese coolers, you cant get those here). Its simple like that.

I can solder, I can craft new things, I just need the proper ingredients to fix up this heat salad. Any other suggestions?

[almansor]

Does anybody know a CPU cooler configuration that would cool a Vero 29?

Lets be honest, this is just improvising. Fixing a problem with household remedies, when there is a better solution out there...that is just not available.

So one has to improvise. But how?

I would even concider taping the COB to the bottom of a metal beaker filled with water...if it gets the job done.

Just for kicks: How would you find out, if that would work? Do you measure the heat?

[majorana]

when I said "back that up" I meant: do you know a reliable product and do you have accesss to datasheets that you can provide via links. [...] You said, you would build your next grow on that technology, so you must have a rough estimate concerning how much of those PBCs you need, what color temperature, energy cost, distance to the plants...all that stuff you plan in, when you build a new unit. Lets start with the source.
Where do you get those PBCs from?

Something about the tone of voice is grating me. I'm happy to help, and I recognize this might be a just a cultural/linguistic issue, but still.

Yes, datasheets abound. Google is your friend.

I'll be buying in about a month drivers and the related PCBs/strips of either LM561c or LM301b, depending whether or not either will be available at 3000k@90CRI, and about 20% of the total at 5000K@80CRI. It will be from an Alibaba supplier which you can readily find yourself, and I've included indications on how to find him under the Classifieds section of this very forum.

How effective any heatsink is depends on its capacity to remove heat. Metals are great for that, water isn't. There is such a thing as water-cooling, but that revolves over a constant exchange of the heated water. If you end up building anything mad as that you might also want to look into constructing a Stirling engine, as a way to recycle some of the energy.