Need input from you pros. Build vs. Buy something like optic8+

[Tassetapir]

Hey! I will do a rather short start here just to get the talk going. Iil film in with more of my own thoughts later.

But for now I would like ur opinion about this dilemma.. Say u want a good grow light, u are looking at something like this:
https://opticledgrowlights.com/products ... 3500k-cobs

Or something from here:
https://fluence.science/markets/indoor-grow-lights/

Lets say u want that good of a light. U want real numbers, ppfd and it should be spred even among the grow area. You want high yeld for low watt.

It should be a really good light. I imagine that iil get a very far way just by going with quality chips like cree cxb3590 or vero 29 SE for example, have many of the cobs, rum them low. Here ist just a matter of doing some math and put a packade of cobs and drivers together.

Then we come to some other numbers. The kelvin temperature, cri, additional smaller leds with some extra in certain spectrums.
I imagine that choosing, just for example, vero 29. Go with 3000k 90cri. Run em at 50w or even lower but go with many. Maybe some 3500k 80cri in the mix also in order to also be able to vegg decently with this rigg.

I wonder, isnt this the most of the important things? Im aware of that they add extra leds. Some extra wavelenght there and some here. But there is allready a good spectrum from the cobs?

Offcourse there would be not much problem adding some 3w, or whatever, high quality leds. Maybe some far red that goes a couple of minutes after the main lights is turned off for sleeping. And yeah ive read about uvb ans uva and as i understand there isnt enough research done on this, just that one with the confusion about what uv light the plants in the experiment really got but it came out higher thc. But then? Ir? Some extra reds to blast with during Bloom? Is there anything backning up those things? What additional lighting, exept what iil be getting from the 3000k 90cri and maybe one and another 3500k 80cri.

Can u guys help me understand this:
Those i linked above, are they really that good? Is there a lot of unessesary shit going on? Marketing tricks? Seems like them extra additional smal leds with ir, uv, far red etc. Might as well do no difference.

If they are that good, can i as i have been writing above easily just get similar numbers if i just build myself and go with my thoughts told further up in this text?

What do you have to say about those two links i posted, comparing to building something just as good or so close enough good so it doesent matter?

Am i maybe looking at the wrong shit here? Rambling about cobs, but will confess i havent looked into the other shit u guys are deal ingen with here. Board and strips and what not?

Please talk some sense into me about those expensive but, as ive read, good lights compared to try build something really similar but cheaper and lots of more fun!!

This is theoretically but we can just assume its about replacing 1000w hps lights. With this technology. Or we can just use some made up space. 4 x 4ft as seems to be popular using as example.

Damn you, i dont use ft. I use normal metric system, for normal people Meters, kilos, grams, km/h yaa peace out and feel free to send me pm as well.

[alienfarts687]

Well, I'm sure those manufacturers put some money into researching what spectra work well, but how good their research is is another story. And there is certainly a healthy dose of marketing and cost-cutting. Some people (including Growmau5) say supplemental UVB improves trichome development, and it may very well do, but I haven't heard much about IR. But who knows whether the light you posted actually has enough IR or far red or whatever, like you said. I wouldn't be surprised if some of those LEDs also happen to be cheaper and easier to come by than top bin Samsung, Cree or Nichia white LEDs.

I'd rather go with a DIY strip build with white LEDs (or COBs) because they're the most efficient. And unless you're already a master grower, UVB and IR won't be the main things holding you back. Your skills will. Once you've got a grow or two under your belt, you can always look into some far red/deep red/UV/IR supplementation or what have you.

[Tassetapir]

Of course there will be other bottlenecks when light is enough. Like the CO2 thing..
But again, we just imagine this in order to have som example to work with:

Lets say the grow is going on in some really good setup. Lets say there is a big and high quality aeroponicssystem with large nutrienttanks and The nutritions tuned in well.
Everything with the grow is very modern and using the most advanced tecniques when it comes to the most of the aspects, but not lighting. Still 1000 w hps. The grower in this scenario is a professional and have been growing for many years, allways investing in the grow systems or what not that is concidered top of the line at that given moment. So exept co2 there will be not so much of bottlenecks that will make an uppgrade to the lights would be unessesary.

"I'd rather go with a DIY strip build with white LEDs (or COBs) because they're the most efficient. " This is what ive been ignoring, have to start reading. Im sure iil find a good beginners guide somewhere. The thing that makes me wanna look this way is about cooling the cobs.

Thank you for a good answer!

[unkle_psycho]

I understood that you are from scandinavia? If you already use electricity to heat your building, then its important to understand that whats called efficiency here means heat. When I switched from HID to led I felt I had to increase my heating at least as much as I was saving in general efficiency. It's something to keep in mind. My next build is a tent thats built using the same isolation we have in our walls and celings, so my heating stays 'efficient' too.

About further selection of the light, with a single source of light, halving the distance to the light increases light intensity much more then anything else, so one of the benefits of many small leds is the ability to place them close and spread the light. I think that is the reason that the COB section here does not see that much action. Finally you need to think of your effective grow space in 3d terms. Cobs might offer more possibility to direct one light to a single plant, while mid-sized leds allow you to get an even spread over a large area?

[unkle_psycho]

Oh, and I think you can hit bigger numbers with a DIY, since you can get the same components they use. I started by reading about Lumiya, and quickly realized I can build similar specs for 5x cheaper. Building a strip light where the components cost as much as a fluence, would mean a room where all walls and ceilings are full of the best diodes.

Reading about studies on light spectrums, I have serious doubts on the type of general spectrums they push. I would say optimum spectrum would range by species and even by specimen. Lots of hype out there.

[kmb]

One more thing to think about is DIY can be a smaller and investment upfront and easier to reuse parts in your next build.

[Tassetapir]

Im all for building myself. But I have constant discussions about this with a guy i know. He claims those lights are the best, if someone should by something good they should go for the manufactured ones i linked above. Me on the other hand, claim that its possible to build an equally good or better one much cheaper.

Would be fun to know what they put inside their SPYDRx PLUS, here they are about 2 160$ each.

https://fluence.science/technology/spydr/

It just cant be that good

[unkle_psycho]

Ask the guy how he calculates his claims. Every led manufacturer has come up with new more efficient diodes since that light came out, so its a kinda weired claim. Like saying a 2012 car is the most powerful thing out there... I can promise that the most powerful car will not come from a factory or from a decade ago. In leds a year or two is a pretty long time.

What diodes does that light use? LM561c? I think the only manufacturer offering something better then DIY parts is the new HLG which claims to have a special bin of the LM301B diode.

The efficiency can be calculated from the efficiency of the driver and diodes, and could be further improved by driving soft. That is where you could beat any factory numbers, you just buy the same parts, and add double the diodes, and you will be more efficient.

The only way these brand fixtures could compete with DIY is if they hit markets of scale. For the moment the best white diodes are in a market of scale because they are used in LED TVs, but the light manufacturers price their fixtures like you would expect a western company to do. You are paying for their lounges, coffee machines, moral boosting parties and what not.

Tonight I'll dig up some builds that members have built, and we can look at efficiency numbers and compare. One area where manufacturers might shine is optics, but in terms of raw efficiency, they dont stand a chance.

[alienfarts687]

They also have the advantage (at least for commercial gardeners) of passing some basic testing and quality control. And they're generally waterproof to allow for foliar sprays, too.

[unkle_psycho]

Thats really the thing, actually. There is surprisingly little info for commercial opps dealing with say cucumbers or strawberries, if you can't apply from research data with RGB diodes. A while back I was contacted by a group of friends who wanted to take over a huge greenhouse. I read pretty much all the available literature I could find on common plants in heated greenhouses, from climates similar to ours.
There was surprisingly little applicable information, it was surprisingly difficult to make projections etc. so less experienced farmers can easily get gassed by sales reps that offer a sure package with lots of calculations etc. Filling a 2000m2 greenhouse with 1500$ lights sounds pretty mad to me, but in Europe such purchases might be tax deductible or something. In our case the EU would have payed 70% of all gear, because they are trying to develop that area.

I think currently the industry game is to act like a direct replacement for HID, although really led calls for being as close as possible, with an even spread over the canopy.

Aren't the strips waterproof? at least most of the drivers are. Would not cost too much to order waterproof housing for the strips and cables from alibaba.