About to buy an Apogee MQ500. Anything to consider first?

[unkle_psycho]

I googled the brand, and they have some really cool looking stuff... I'm realizing cheap is a relative concept when talking about gear like this Definatly seems like you get more bang for your buck then with the apogee? Wider spectrum, PAR and spectrum measurement, for about the price of an apogee. Their models go up until 3000$ though.

[randorson]

The assentek maybe an option for you, they are cheap and connect to your phone, not all that accurate but good enough for DIY.

They are over twice the price of the apogee from what I'm seeing, and have only half the accuracy. Why would someone with a store bought LED's need a more accurate meter than a person with DIY LED's?

[TEKNIK]

When you are growing on a major scale every little detail counts and accuracy needs to be as high as possible or it may effect you by hundreds of thousands of dollars. With DIY there isn't as much money at stake, being able to view the spectrum is important so you can tweak it over time to improve results.
Upto you, there are cheap par meters and there are top of the range, it depends on how far you want to go with it all. From what I understand of the appogee the accuracy is quite high but myself I would rather also view spectrum too even if it wasn't 100%

[randorson]

When you are growing on a major scale every little detail counts and accuracy needs to be as high as possible or it may effect you by hundreds of thousands of dollars. With DIY there isn't as much money at stake, being able to view the spectrum is important so you can tweak it over time to improve results.
Upto you, there are cheap par meters and there are top of the range, it depends on how far you want to go with it all. From what I understand of the appogee the accuracy is quite high but myself I would rather also view spectrum too even if it wasn't 100%

I see. You're using "DIY" to refer to scale of a grow, not how the lights in the grow were acquired? I have an 11 gavita room (4 now converted to LED), a 29 gavita room, and a 4 gavita room (1 now converted to LED). Of course that not considering veg spaces which are entirely LED and have been for years. I've made a living with indoor an outdoor for over 10 years now. Im not sure if I'm out of the DIY category but it feels like it.

[unkle_psycho]

I'd say thats well out of hobby territory.

I think its a good question though, on the relevance of the accuracy of measurement... Normally scientists use spectrometers to calculate what material stars are made of etc... So I wonder what the relevance points are in horticulture. How many % of error are we talking about?

[TEKNIK]

When you are growing on a major scale every little detail counts and accuracy needs to be as high as possible or it may effect you by hundreds of thousands of dollars. With DIY there isn't as much money at stake, being able to view the spectrum is important so you can tweak it over time to improve results.
Upto you, there are cheap par meters and there are top of the range, it depends on how far you want to go with it all. From what I understand of the appogee the accuracy is quite high but myself I would rather also view spectrum too even if it wasn't 100%

I see. You're using "DIY" to refer to scale of a grow, not how the lights in the grow were acquired? I have an 11 gavita room (4 now converted to LED), a 29 gavita room, and a 4 gavita room (1 now converted to LED). Of course that not considering veg spaces which are entirely LED and have been for years. I've made a living with indoor an outdoor for over 10 years now. Im not sure if I'm out of the DIY category but it feels like it.

I would suggest that you spend more and get something to view spectrum as well as par. As it is a business for you it's best to get as much information as possible so you can find tune your grows and improve results. It will be worth it over time and a great investment. I focus on spectrum now over efficacy as I believe that with the right spectrum results will get better, without being able to view the spectrum it will be a guessing game for you.
It is important to note that every strain reacts differently under different spectrums, they all grow but some just work better than others with different spectrums, you would be able to work out what best suits your particular strain over a few grows and experiments.

[randorson]

I'd say thats well out of hobby territory.

I think its a good question though, on the relevance of the accuracy of measurement... Normally scientists use spectrometers to calculate what material stars are made of etc... So I wonder what the relevance points are in horticulture. How many % of error are we talking about?

That's a great question and my guess would be that we don't know yet. Heck even the effects of varying spectral composition on cannabis is massively understudied.

[randorson]

Ok. My question here is, how would I fine tune the spectral output of my LED's? Wouldn't I have to mix and match didoes on custom broads to do that? Is it really unwise to assume the diodes are producing the spectrum that Samsung claims they will?


I have considered adding far red strips since the research shows adding far-red light increases quantum yield of photosystem II (presumably due to preferential excitation of photosystem I) by 3.6%. But that has not been translated in to increased product yield by any research that I'm aware of. For the cots of adding the far red to pay itself off in a single run, the far-red would have to add about 48 grams yield to each light. My guess is it would take about 12 runs for the investment in far-red to pay itself off. That's a bit over 24 months. By then I'm hoping for better options to be on the market.I suspect diodes or boards with truer full spectrum, including far red and far blue, will be coming out, and getting cheaper soon.

I cant expect to get better prices for increases in quality as I am already topped out on the high end of indoor prices, based on my current quality. Of course the buyers would like it but they wont pay any more. They cant because the dispensaries wont pay any more themselves.

Since the first light I made with the F-series 3500K and the high voltage driver far out produced my gavits, and used around 30% less energy to do it, simply matching that result puts me WAY ahead of the average grower in m area and dramatically increase profit. For now, my main concern is ensuring that the builds using 3000k strips being driven slightly softer will produce similar results.

Unfortunately (maybe) after the successful test of the first light, I built 4 more using 3K strips instead of 35k and switched to slightly less powerful drivers.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4340

[unkle_psycho]

I'd say thats well out of hobby territory.

I think its a good question though, on the relevance of the accuracy of measurement... Normally scientists use spectrometers to calculate what material stars are made of etc... So I wonder what the relevance points are in horticulture. How many % of error are we talking about?

That's a great question and my guess would be that we don't know yet. Heck even the effects of varying spectral composition on cannabis is massively understudied.

Companies need to sell, so they don't usually have en incentive to market on the basis of need, in a fast progressing field. When ever I see insinuation of significance, I just ask myself if I was pointed to either a qualitative or quantitative benefit. You would be surprised how often people try to insinuate significance, without being able to specify anything.

[unkle_psycho]

Ok. My question here is, how would I fine tune the spectral output of my LED's? Wouldn't I have to mix and match didoes on custom broads to do that? Is it really unwise to assume the diodes are producing the spectrum that Samsung claims they will?


I have considered adding far red strips since the research shows adding far-red light increases quantum yield of photosystem II (presumably due to preferential excitation of photosystem I) by 3.6%. But that has not been translated in to increased product yield by any research that I'm aware of. For the cots of adding the far red to pay itself off in a single run, the far-red would have to add about 48 grams yield to each light. My guess is it would take about 12 runs for the investment in far-red to pay itself off. That's a bit over 24 months. By then I'm hoping for better options to be on the market.I suspect diodes or boards with truer full spectrum, including far red and far blue, will be coming out, and getting cheaper soon.

I cant expect to get better prices for increases in quality as I am already topped out on the high end of indoor prices, based on my current quality. Of course the buyers would like it but they wont pay any more. They cant because the dispensaries wont pay any more themselves.

Since the first light I made with the F-series 3500K and the high voltage driver far out produced my gavits, and used around 30% less energy to do it, simply matching that result puts me WAY ahead of the average grower in m area and dramatically increase profit. For now, my main concern is ensuring that the builds using 3000k strips being driven slightly softer will produce similar results.

Unfortunately (maybe) after the successful test of the first light, I built 4 more using 3K strips instead of 35k and switched to slightly less powerful drivers.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4340

This is exactly what I've been wondering for the last few months. I've been leaning on getting less powerful frequencies as starboards from steves led, and more powerful frequencies as strips from cutter.

There are a couple of different logics I thought I would pursue by making a couple of different supplemental recipes into 2x2's, and comparing the results. I was thinking of exaggerating a little with some of them, just to see if I can get clear differences. So for example instead of adding a little red I might run one 50:50 with white and 660nm.

I was planning on making another fixture into high CRI, so slow curve into UV and far red, and fix the dip after 450nm. Now teknik has been going on about the nichias, and I don't have a spectrometer... I might just get the 98CRI nichias as a comparison, and if the high CRI approach bears special results, I can explore it with discrete diodes.

730nm is probably the addition I wanted most, and for longest. I want to make the sleep initiation. I think there is enough evidence for that, I don't even care to test that, just want it done. Naturally they can also be kept on during normal lights on hours for a boost in CRI and perhaps a little emerson effect... I just heared that the emerson effect would be at its strongest in weak lighting, so while worth testing, it might be better not to take it for granted.