UV module build

[Randomblame]

Sorry, I'm a bit late..

I would use this diode. That's the one recommended in the video and it has 280-290nm and very low output in the UVC range(<280nm). Its a 100mA diode with 10mW output, with a series parallel circuit of we should be able to find a siutable driver. A 5x 1w ebay driver has usually 17v and ~270mA. With 2s3p each diode would get around 90mA and produce ~9mW.
6 of them would create 54mW/s of 285nm.

http://www.s-et.com/upload2/CUD8GF1B_R1.0.pdf

You remember that picture here was used to explain how much is needed and how much time it needs to be on.
Benötigte Intensität und Länge der UV Behandlung.png

54mW is 0,054W if we use this amount of light and look at the chart above we see 0,05W in the 1st green row. Below that you see how long in takes until you have a dose of 360 and 540J/m2. Exactly 2h for 360 and 3h for 540.

The rows below that are for diodes with 300-310nm output. 1000J/m2 is already in the red range with 0,05W of 280-290nm.

Such an ebay driver costs 1,50$ or so. Not the best ones, <80% efficiency but you would use less than 12v so there is enough head room. If you want you could change the 105°C input capacitor against a 150° one. That helps a lot and makes them much more durable. But they are cheap; maybe easier to take a few of them. They run 2-3h per day and should at least run a year or so.
I've downloaded the according pdf from the Seti/Seoulviosys UVB test(there was a download link below that video) but I can still not upload pdf's. Is it really not allowed to upload useful pdf's?

Here is a workaround...
If you're interested download the 1st file below(next evolution ..) and delete the .jpg part to make is a pdf again.

I saw the Seoul chips at digikey, they were about 17e each. I can also get them, but already ordered the chips that I mentioned at the beginning of the thread. I was thinking that 4x4mw would be superior to 1 10mw diode because of coverage etc.

Do you have any idea of how I could estimate the 0.1umol/s power level, and how that relates to the mw/cm2 figure?

Yeah, you need to know the threoretical radiated efficiency of 285nm wavelength. The chief has made a useful sheet giving you the needed formula and avogadro numbers but he has not calculated the numbers for the lower wavelengths.

μMol/s is anyway not the right way to express UV numbers.
UV light works with the dosage princip and should be expressed either in J/m2 or mW/m2 or μW/cm². Yeah, its still a photon but with no photosynthetic use so its useless to calculate μMols and it makes thing only more complicated.
It should probably sound as when he's a smart guy but it doesn't!
Better stay with w/m2 or J/m², its much easier to convert it.

You can easily convert μW/cm² to kJ/m2 by multiplying it by 0,036. You can also use 3,6 as multiplier to get J/m² directly.
10μW/cm²/s x 0,036 is a dose of 0,36KJ/m² or 360J/m2.


Forget the 0,1μMol/s he has mentioned.. you would need to calculated it backwards using the formula and the avogadro's numbers in the picture above to calculate how much watt is needed to get the 0,1μMol/s.
It not neccessary! Only the wavelength efficiency would be useful in some rare cases because its a constant number(μMol/J) we could be used again and again. But using μMol/s with UV makes it only more complicated. I really don't know why he has mentioned it.

If you get 12mW out of 2,45w that would be 0,012w radiated UVB. That's 4,5 times less like in my example with 6 diodes and 0,054w. So you would need 4,5x the time needed in my example and that goes for a squaremeter. Impossible with only 12h the day and with 1,44m² you would need 6,5x that much time. 12mw is simply not enough to get to 360J/m².
I would order a more powerful diode and send the other ones back. If it's not too late you can maybe change them if you contact digikey and tell them you've made a mistake.

They also recommend in that video to use the UVB when the mainlight is off cuz it has no effect on PS. They say together with normal light the blue wavelength would activate a photo repair mechanism which works against the UVB stress.

If I would create something I would try to use it together with my far-red trigger. Far-red triggers are used 5 to 10 minutes after lights off and its predestinated to use it together with UVB when you get the needed dose in the same time.

If you look at the chart from the video it says with 0,3w you only need 0,33hours (20minutes)to get 360J/m². So with 0,6w only 10minutes are already sufficient to get that dose and that case it could be used together with a far-red trigger.
1w radiated UVB in 285nm for 10 minutes would be already a dose of 600J/m².
Pretty much perfect to combine it with a far-red trigger IMO cuz you would get the needed dose of both with only 5-10 minutes.

Pretty sure the wavelength don't affect each other. UVB has no effects on phytochromes like far-red and for far-red and the UVR8 receptor its the same so theoretically it should work when we combine both to profit two times from one single 10-15w light with combinated UVB and far-red. Also much easier to find a siutable driver and its not difficult to figure out a circuit design(series-parallel) to power the all diodes with one 300mA driver.

[Randomblame]

Sorry, I'm a bit late..

I would use this diode. That's the one recommended in the video and it has 280-290nm and very low output in the UVC range(<280nm). Its a 100mA diode with 10mW output, with a series parallel circuit of we should be able to find a siutable driver. A 5x 1w ebay driver has usually 17v and ~270mA. With 2s3p each diode would get around 90mA and produce ~9mW.
6 of them would create 54mW/s of 285nm.

http://www.s-et.com/upload2/CUD8GF1B_R1.0.pdf

You remember that picture here was used to explain how much is needed and how much time it needs to be on.
Benötigte Intensität und Länge der UV Behandlung.png

54mW is 0,054W if we use this amount of light and look at the chart above we see 0,05W in the 1st green row. Below that you see how long in takes until you have a dose of 360 and 540J/m2. Exactly 2h for 360 and 3h for 540.

The rows below that are for diodes with 300-310nm output. 1000J/m2 is already in the red range with 0,05W of 280-290nm.

Such an ebay driver costs 1,50$ or so. Not the best ones, <80% efficiency but you would use less than 12v so there is enough head room. If you want you could change the 105°C input capacitor against a 150° one. That helps a lot and makes them much more durable. But they are cheap; maybe easier to take a few of them. They run 2-3h per day and should at least run a year or so.
I've downloaded the according pdf from the Seti/Seoulviosys UVB test(there was a download link below that video) but I can still not upload pdf's. Is it really not allowed to upload useful pdf's?

Here is a workaround...
If you're interested download the 1st file below(next evolution ..) and delete the .jpg part to make is a pdf again.

I saw the Seoul chips at digikey, they were about 17e each. I can also get them, but already ordered the chips that I mentioned at the beginning of the thread. I was thinking that 4x4mw would be superior to 1 10mw diode because of coverage etc.

Do you have any idea of how I could estimate the 0.1umol/s power level, and how that relates to the mw/cm2 figure?

Yeah, you need to know the threoretical radiated efficiency of 285nm wavelength. The chief has made a useful sheet giving you the needed formula and avogadro numbers but he has not calculated the numbers for the lower wavelengths.

μMol/s is anyway not the right way to express UV numbers.
UV light works with the dosage princip and should be expressed either in J/m2 or mW/m2 or μW/cm². Yeah, its still a photon but with no photosynthetic use so its useless to calculate μMols and it makes thing only more complicated.
It should probably sound as when he's a smart guy but it doesn't!
Better stay with w/m2 or J/m², its much easier to convert it.

You can easily convert μW/cm² to kJ/m2 by multiplying it by 0,036. You can also use 3,6 as multiplier to get J/m² directly.
10μW/cm²/s x 0,036 is a dose of 0,36KJ/m² or 360J/m2.


You would need to calculated it backwards using the formula and the avogadro's numbers in the picture above to calculate how much watt is needed to get the 0,1μMol/s.
It not neccessary! Only the wavelength efficiency would be useful in some rare cases because its a constant number(μMol/J) we could be used again and again. But using μMol/s with UV makes it only more complicated. I really don't know why he has mentioned it.

If you get 12mW out of 2,45w that would be 0,012w radiated UVB. That's 4,5 times less like in my example with 6 diodes and 0,054w. So you would need 4,5x the time needed in my example and that goes for a squaremeter. Impossible with only 12h the day and with 1,44m² you would need 6,5x that much time. 12mw is simply not enough to get to 360J/m².
I would order a more powerful diode and send the other ones back. If it's not too late you can maybe change them if you contact digikey and tell them you've made a mistake.

They also recommend in that video to use the UVB when the mainlight is off cuz it has no effect on PS. They say together with normal light the blue wavelength would activate a photo repair mechanism which works against the UVB stress.

If I would create something I would try to use it together with my far-red trigger. Far-red triggers are used 5 to 10 minutes after lights off and its predestinated to use it together with UVB when you get the needed dose in the same time.

If you look at the chart from the video it says with 0,3w you only need 0,33hours (20minutes)to get 360J/m². So with 0,6w only 10minutes are already sufficient to get that dose and that case it could be used together with a far-red trigger.
1w radiated UVB in 285nm for 10 minutes would be already a dose of 600J/m².
Pretty much perfect to combine it with a far-red trigger IMO cuz you would get the needed dose of both with only 5-10 minutes.

Pretty sure the wavelength don't affect each other. UVB has no effects on phytochromes like far-red and for far-red and the UVR8 receptor its the same so theoretically it should work when we combine both to profit two times from one single 10-15w light with combinated UVB and far-red. Also much easier to find a siutable driver and its not difficult to figure out a circuit design(series-parallel) to power the all diodes with one 300mA driver

It only gets fecken expensive cuz with 90mA per diode and an output of 8mW one would need +110 diodes and ~65w, lol!

[unkle_psycho]

Sorry, I'm a bit late..

I would use this diode. That's the one recommended in the video and it has 280-290nm and very low output in the UVC range(<280nm). Its a 100mA diode with 10mW output, with a series parallel circuit of we should be able to find a siutable driver. A 5x 1w ebay driver has usually 17v and ~270mA. With 2s3p each diode would get around 90mA and produce ~9mW.
6 of them would create 54mW/s of 285nm.

http://www.s-et.com/upload2/CUD8GF1B_R1.0.pdf

You remember that picture here was used to explain how much is needed and how much time it needs to be on.
Benötigte Intensität und Länge der UV Behandlung.png

54mW is 0,054W if we use this amount of light and look at the chart above we see 0,05W in the 1st green row. Below that you see how long in takes until you have a dose of 360 and 540J/m2. Exactly 2h for 360 and 3h for 540.

The rows below that are for diodes with 300-310nm output. 1000J/m2 is already in the red range with 0,05W of 280-290nm.

Such an ebay driver costs 1,50$ or so. Not the best ones, <80% efficiency but you would use less than 12v so there is enough head room. If you want you could change the 105°C input capacitor against a 150° one. That helps a lot and makes them much more durable. But they are cheap; maybe easier to take a few of them. They run 2-3h per day and should at least run a year or so.
I've downloaded the according pdf from the Seti/Seoulviosys UVB test(there was a download link below that video) but I can still not upload pdf's. Is it really not allowed to upload useful pdf's?

Here is a workaround...
If you're interested download the 1st file below(next evolution ..) and delete the .jpg part to make is a pdf again.

I really appriciate your help. I will also order the seoul/SETI chips for a more certain solution, but since I have these I still feel like trying them out. I have a university who said they would do a lab report for me when I need it, so I feel I want to expand on this UV science, having these low power chips to compare to Seouls.

I checked the output on my chips, and @ 87.5mA they should produce 3.5mw each, for a combined 14mw.

Looking at the dosage chart it seems to be pretty linear. With power going from 0.05w to 0.15w the treatment time falls from 3h to 1h. I think I'm destined to take it to the other direction.

So I get a ratio of 3.57 to hit the 50mw dose using 14mw. This means 7.14h to hit the 360J dose, and 10.7h to hit the 540J dose. I hope I'm making sense.

I was thinking of running these in a 1m2 (3x3) tent, because they are low powered as is.

One more thing. The driver I selected could run a lot more of these, so in a sense I could double down on stupidity and add another 4 diodes. If my calculations are accurate I guess I should not need them though, and these should be fine for testing running UV through most of the night.

[Randomblame]

Sorry, I'm a bit late..

I would use this diode. That's the one recommended in the video and it has 280-290nm and very low output in the UVC range(<280nm). Its a 100mA diode with 10mW output, with a series parallel circuit of we should be able to find a siutable driver. A 5x 1w ebay driver has usually 17v and ~270mA. With 2s3p each diode would get around 90mA and produce ~9mW.
6 of them would create 54mW/s of 285nm.

http://www.s-et.com/upload2/CUD8GF1B_R1.0.pdf

You remember that picture here was used to explain how much is needed and how much time it needs to be on.
Benötigte Intensität und Länge der UV Behandlung.png

54mW is 0,054W if we use this amount of light and look at the chart above we see 0,05W in the 1st green row. Below that you see how long in takes until you have a dose of 360 and 540J/m2. Exactly 2h for 360 and 3h for 540.

The rows below that are for diodes with 300-310nm output. 1000J/m2 is already in the red range with 0,05W of 280-290nm.

Such an ebay driver costs 1,50$ or so. Not the best ones, <80% efficiency but you would use less than 12v so there is enough head room. If you want you could change the 105°C input capacitor against a 150° one. That helps a lot and makes them much more durable. But they are cheap; maybe easier to take a few of them. They run 2-3h per day and should at least run a year or so.
I've downloaded the according pdf from the Seti/Seoulviosys UVB test(there was a download link below that video) but I can still not upload pdf's. Is it really not allowed to upload useful pdf's?

Here is a workaround...
If you're interested download the 1st file below(next evolution ..) and delete the .jpg part to make is a pdf again.

I really appriciate your help. I will also order the seoul/SETI chips for a more certain solution, but since I have these I still feel like trying them out. I have a university who said they would do a lab report for me when I need it, so I feel I want to expand on this UV science, having these low power chips to compare to Seouls.

I checked the output on my chips, and @ 87.5mA they should produce 3.5mw each, for a combined 14mw.

Looking at the dosage chart it seems to be pretty linear. With power going from 0.05w to 0.15w the treatment time falls from 3h to 1h. I think I'm destined to take it to the other direction.

So I get a ratio of 3.57 to hit the 50mw dose using 14mw. This means 7.14h to hit the 360J dose, and 10.7h to hit the 540J dose. I hope I'm making sense.

I was thinking of running these in a 1m2 (3x3) tent, because they are low powered as is.

One more thing. The driver I selected could run a lot more of these, so in a sense I could double down on stupidity and add another 4 diodes. If my calculations are accurate I guess I should not need them though, and these should be fine for testing running UV through most of the night.

Calculation is correct! I only have a problem running it at night for such a long time.
Usually the plants use the night times to make use of the stored energy and stressing them most of the time sounds somehow counterproductive cuz it could disturb this process. I don't think the photo repair mechanisms will eliminate the effects of UVB completely. It maybe helps a little with the stress but if it would be neccessary we would not see improvements when using reptile or other UVB bulbs over the day.

When photons in the 285nm range hit the UVR8 molecule it falls apart and there is no way to repair it again. As soon as the molecule falls apart the plant recognize it and gets the signal to invest more energy in self protection. So even if the repair mechanism would repair the UVR8 molecule somehow the plant has got the signal already. And a repaired molecule could get destroyed again so it would actually be useful to repair them.
I don't think the photo repair mechanism can eliminate the effects of UVB completely.

If the UVR8 bubble gets hitted it gets splitted and there is no way to kit it!(yeah-ah... yeah-ah, and there is no way to kit)



In the worst case we maybe need a bit more time but I don't think so. Maybe the opposide is the case and without UVA or blue light that activates the self repair mechanism the cell walls could get damaged my too much UVB. We only want to destroy the UVR8 molecule but nothing else.

I'll order 8 of the Seoulviosys diodes myself to create something for my 10ft² area. At 50°C Tj. and 90mA drive current the output should be close to 8mW(86% output@50°C) so ~64mW. I would need 1,6h(96 mins) to get the 360J/m² dose and 2,65h(159 mins) for 540J/m² and at first I'll run them right before lights off. Then 5 mins far-red to put them in night mode and give them the whole night to recover.

[unkle_psycho]

So happy mu numbers make sense. I had written an email to the guys at Seoul, complaining about expressions like 'the seoul diode will work at any normal working distance'... thats like 10-300cm in horticulture.

The referance the guy made to blue light and photorepair seemed to be in passing, like they have not reserched it. I guess there might be some benefit in maximizing damage, if this UV stuff works better with higher doses, but my general life experience suggests that activating repair mechanisms might be a beneficial thing here too.

I stopped eating sugar some years back, and after a year off, I tasted one of my kids candies. It was enough to make me sick, since my body had become so used to living without the stress. My kid must have eaten 20 of them with no reaction, and if my body was at all used to sugar I expect I could have eaten them along with him... So my experience says that without natural healing mechanisms even a little poison can have a profound effect.

Another thing I'm wondering about is that the diode I have is about 5nm lower frequency then the seoul chip. Dropping from 310nm to 285 (25nm drop) increased efficacy 10 fold, so I assume that I cannot drop frequency by 20% of this without any effect...

[0 to 220]

Sorry, don't know if this has been mentioned, I wanted to dump this blurb here ... partially for my own reference I will admit.

(On possibly strengthening plant defenses)


Chlorogenic and caffeic acids are phenolic acids.

(About phenolic acids:)

Plant phenolics have key roles as blue and red pigments, but also as antioxidants and ultraviolet light screens (Lattanzio et al., 2006). Thus their established roles are clearly ecological in nature. Plants need phenolic compounds for a variety of reasons. Specifically for phenolic acids, chlorogenic acid shows radical scavenging activity, antifungal action against pathogenic fungi, and acts against insects, bacteria, and viruses; p-coumaric acid also exhibits radical scavenging, antimicrobial, and antioxidant activity; caffeic and chicoric acid have antibacterial and antioxidant activity, respectively (Lattanzio et al., 2006; Seigler, 1998; Wink, 2010)

So it looks like 220, 300, 330nm might be useful for these

[unkle_psycho]

Sorry, don't know if this has been mentioned, I wanted to dump this blurb here ... partially for my own reference I will admit.

(On possibly strengthening plant defenses)


Chlorogenic and caffeic acids are phenolic acids.

(About phenolic acids:)

Plant phenolics have key roles as blue and red pigments, but also as antioxidants and ultraviolet light screens (Lattanzio et al., 2006). Thus their established roles are clearly ecological in nature. Plants need phenolic compounds for a variety of reasons. Specifically for phenolic acids, chlorogenic acid shows radical scavenging activity, antifungal action against pathogenic fungi, and acts against insects, bacteria, and viruses; p-coumaric acid also exhibits radical scavenging, antimicrobial, and antioxidant activity; caffeic and chicoric acid have antibacterial and antioxidant activity, respectively (Lattanzio et al., 2006; Seigler, 1998; Wink, 2010)

So it looks like 220, 300, 330nm might be useful for these

Thats interesting stuff. Also interesting how they all meet at 280nm

I can't wait to run some side by sides with different UV setups to see what types of difference they make. It would be nice to have some type of scale on how power influences effects, and of course also how it damages the plant, affecting yield. There might be a kind of paretto effect where you get 80% of the benefits with only 20% of the losses

[Or_Gro]

Sorry, I'm a bit late..

I would use this diode. That's the one recommended in the video and it has 280-290nm and very low output in the UVC range(<280nm). Its a 100mA diode with 10mW output, with a series parallel circuit of we should be able to find a siutable driver. A 5x 1w ebay driver has usually 17v and ~270mA. With 2s3p each diode would get around 90mA and produce ~9mW.
6 of them would create 54mW/s of 285nm.

http://www.s-et.com/upload2/CUD8GF1B_R1.0.pdf

You remember that picture here was used to explain how much is needed and how much time it needs to be on.
Benötigte Intensität und Länge der UV Behandlung.png

54mW is 0,054W if we use this amount of light and look at the chart above we see 0,05W in the 1st green row. Below that you see how long in takes until you have a dose of 360 and 540J/m2. Exactly 2h for 360 and 3h for 540.

The rows below that are for diodes with 300-310nm output. 1000J/m2 is already in the red range with 0,05W of 280-290nm.

Such an ebay driver costs 1,50$ or so. Not the best ones, <80% efficiency but you would use less than 12v so there is enough head room. If you want you could change the 105°C input capacitor against a 150° one. That helps a lot and makes them much more durable. But they are cheap; maybe easier to take a few of them. They run 2-3h per day and should at least run a year or so.
I've downloaded the according pdf from the Seti/Seoulviosys UVB test(there was a download link below that video) but I can still not upload pdf's. Is it really not allowed to upload useful pdf's?

Here is a workaround...
If you're interested download the 1st file below(next evolution ..) and delete the .jpg part to make is a pdf again.

I really appriciate your help. I will also order the seoul/SETI chips for a more certain solution, but since I have these I still feel like trying them out. I have a university who said they would do a lab report for me when I need it, so I feel I want to expand on this UV science, having these low power chips to compare to Seouls.

I checked the output on my chips, and @ 87.5mA they should produce 3.5mw each, for a combined 14mw.

Looking at the dosage chart it seems to be pretty linear. With power going from 0.05w to 0.15w the treatment time falls from 3h to 1h. I think I'm destined to take it to the other direction.

So I get a ratio of 3.57 to hit the 50mw dose using 14mw. This means 7.14h to hit the 360J dose, and 10.7h to hit the 540J dose. I hope I'm making sense.

I was thinking of running these in a 1m2 (3x3) tent, because they are low powered as is.

One more thing. The driver I selected could run a lot more of these, so in a sense I could double down on stupidity and add another 4 diodes. If my calculations are accurate I guess I should not need them though, and these should be fine for testing running UV through most of the night.

How’d pt get in there?

Calculation is correct! I only have a problem running it at night for such a long time.
Usually the plants use the night times to make use of the stored energy and stressing them most of the time sounds somehow counterproductive cuz it could disturb this process. I don't think the photo repair mechanisms will eliminate the effects of UVB completely. It maybe helps a little with the stress but if it would be neccessary we would not see improvements when using reptile or other UVB bulbs over the day.

When photons in the 285nm range hit the UVR8 molecule it falls apart and there is no way to repair it again. As soon as the molecule falls apart the plant recognize it and gets the signal to invest more energy in self protection. So even if the repair mechanism would repair the UVR8 molecule somehow the plant has got the signal already. And a repaired molecule could get destroyed again so it would actually be useful to repair them.
I don't think the photo repair mechanism can eliminate the effects of UVB completely.

If the UVR8 bubble gets hitted it gets splitted and there is no way to kit it!(yeah-ah... yeah-ah, and there is no way to kit)



In the worst case we maybe need a bit more time but I don't think so. Maybe the opposide is the case and without UVA or blue light that activates the self repair mechanism the cell walls could get damaged my too much UVB. We only want to destroy the UVR8 molecule but nothing else.

I'll order 8 of the Seoulviosys diodes myself to create something for my 10ft² area. At 50°C Tj. and 90mA drive current the output should be close to 8mW(86% output@50°C) so ~64mW. I would need 1,6h(96 mins) to get the 360J/m² dose and 2,65h(159 mins) for 540J/m² and at first I'll run them right before lights off. Then 5 mins far-red to put them in night mode and give them the whole night to recover.

[TEKNIK]

Southern Australia and New Zealand has some of the highest amounts of UV on the planet thanks to the Ozone being depleted from CFCs, it seems to be slowly repairing now but we are still the skin cancer capital of the world, might be why outdoor grows are so potent too.
on a hot summers day here I get burnt in 10 minutes of being in the sun, when I am in Europe I don't wear any sunscreen and don't get burnt at all even after hours just to give a example of how different it is

[unkle_psycho]

Yeah here its rare for the sun to be that intense. I guess even in South-East Asia it was not that bad.

I'm glad to announce that the UV chips and the driver arrived. The bag with the chips has all kinds of crazy warning signs about static electricity. Now I can feel you better on not being able to measure shit. How about if I fuck the chip while welding? How would I know?

I could pick some leaves and do a side by side with/ without UV in a tiny space. Should let me know if its working if I blast a few sq cm per diode?