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First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:42 am
by Simply2complex
Firstly I'd like to thank anyone willing to take the time to read and or respond. Here's some needed info..
I've been growing cannabis for a long time. Breeding cannabis for roughly 7-8 years. A few years ago switched my veg lights to the "blurple" leds. While better than t5, still wasnt as solid as 400watt metal halide. Finally switched my hot 1000watt hps lights to 630 cmh fixtures a year ago with Phillips elite agro 315 bulbs. I've been less than impressed with the results. The heat is as hot in a 4x4 tent as a 1000watt hps.
So I haven't really been able to run them at 630. I've had to run them dimmed to roughly 270watts. I use multiple tents. Haven't converted to full blown rooms. It's so much easier to keep males and keep plants isolated in tents with no worries of accidental pollination.
I've been actively researching cob/led/qb for the past 3 days religiously. Reading most of the grow/builds with them on grow forums, online diy light equipment sellers and YouTube videos. Also conversations with vendors on alibaba.
Looking at quantum boards but am open to strips. I'd like 700 or less watts driven for optimum efficiency while giving great coverage in a 4x4 tent. Ideally 2700k this is pretty much just a flowering light, but I'm open to 3k. Keeping heat in check and not over-working the drivers so theres no concern with burning anything to the ground while being unattended. Whether connected to a heatsink, frame or slate. If after this initial build my happy with the results I'll replicate the build for my other tents.
Then theres price, I suppose if I can keep it under the price of a hlg-600h kit I'd be happy. I've been comparing lm301b and lm561c. Brain is just mush from all these numbers. If anyone cares to share their build, or recommend what may fit what I'm after, I'd be more than grateful.
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:01 am
by alienfarts687
I know how you feel. That's how I was about a month ago when I first started looking at decent lighting.
If you have access to Quantum Boards from HLG or an authorised reseller, I'd definitely go that route. If you're in the US, you really can't go wrong with HLG. For a 4x4, I think you'd want at least 400w and anywhere up to about 600w for 25-35w/sq. ft.
If you're in Australia or New Zealand, go with Sol-Skin boards from Cutter. They're very similar to QBs and plug-n-play. If you want to DIY, get some strips from Cutter and follow the strip building guides on here (I have a post about mine using Cree strips from Cutter).
In Europe, there are a couple of options besides Alibaba. Alibaba would be my absolute last resort. I was considering it for a while, but you really have no idea what you're getting. I was told about some Samsung "LM561Y" diodes by one vendor, who was clearly lying and just sending me the first PDF that came up in Google, which was only on some random Russian website and very fake-looking. One vendor told me they'd send "SUNGSUM" LEDs in one message. Could be a typo, or maybe they really are "SUNGSUM", not Samsung like the ad showed...
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:45 am
by Simply2complex
alienfarts687 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:01 am
I know how you feel. That's how I was about a month ago when I first started looking at decent lighting.
If you have access to Quantum Boards from HLG or an authorised reseller, I'd definitely go that route. If you're in the US, you really can't go wrong with HLG. For a 4x4, I think you'd want at least 400w and anywhere up to about 600w for 25-35w/sq. ft.
If you're in Australia or New Zealand, go with Sol-Skin boards from Cutter. They're very similar to QBs and plug-n-play. If you want to DIY, get some strips from Cutter and follow the strip building guides on here (I have a post about mine using Cree strips from Cutter).
In Europe, there are a couple of options besides Alibaba. Alibaba would be my absolute last resort. I was considering it for a while, but you really have no idea what you're getting. I was told about some Samsung "LM561Y" diodes by one vendor, who was clearly lying and just sending me the first PDF that came up in Google, which was only on some random Russian website and very fake-looking. One vendor told me they'd send "SUNGSUM" LEDs in one message. Could be a typo, or maybe they really are "SUNGSUM", not Samsung like the ad showed...
Thank you for your response. Yes I am in the U.S. I'd definitely would like to be between 600-700 watts. I've been looking at the hlg 600h ...but the spacing seems a bit off.
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:04 am
by Osash78
Hey hello!
Yes, a lot depends on where are u from.
But at the end, u will be most happy and fewer problems with "original" HLG QBs.
Warranty, customer care, and quality are only coming with originals...
Got this lesson spending some money on different Chinese suppliers, I'm not telling is total crap but... if u consider all expenses like postage, taxes, etc... u will end with a relatively mediocre product, saving only a few bucks...
Anyway
One guy makes a specific calculation about power consumption between original and Chinese 288qb.
He comes out that, the difference is only that the original V1 QB drinking 2,6W less power x board...I'm not sure about this...
in my experience is not only this, Chinese boards are running a bit hotter than HLGs, and ofc a quality of manufacturing and materials are visibly different...and u will never be 100% what kind of diode is placed on.
Strip builds are nice too, but a lot of work and at the end not so cheap...
I will go with a lot of QBs or strips 3000k running them at around 65%-70%. No heat and best light coverage...
Just my opinion
Edit: a-ok I see, u are from the USA
no-brainer than... ;D
Stay cool!
Sash
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:17 am
by Hyakutak
I'm currently working on a new build:
The more strips you have, the less your system is heating. Which also means better efficiency & less need of expensive heatsinks. I'm planning on using a 600 watts power supply with between 15 & 20 F series strips.
Actually, on Digikey, 18 of those cost 390$ + 160$ for the 600w driver. I will just use one main aluminum profile to screw the strip. But no dedicated profile for each strip.
It should cost around 600$, run cold & compared to the QB, you got 2592 vs 1152 LM561C diodes for 300-400$ less.
And, of course, with more Diodes & better distribution, the PPFD / light uniformity is way better and the light penetration is also better than a classic quantum board with all the diodes placed at the same place.
This is probably the best option you'll have for this price.
My only three concern with this prototype I haven't tested for now are:
1) I haven't double checked the driver datasheet, it should work, but another driver guru can probably confirm it.
2) From the test I've done at home with my double row f series strips 600w/18 shouldn't produce a lot of heat & should not require any aluminum profiles (less than 55c?).
3) My main concern is about strip rigidity, I don't know how the 4 footer one-row strip will bend without any profile support if I screw them in the center like in the schema. If anyone can do the test for us, it could be great!
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:13 am
by majorana
macthezazou wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:17 am
3) My main concern is about strip rigidity, I don't know how the 4 footer one-row strip will bend without any profile support if I screw them in the center like in the schema. If anyone can do the test for us, it could be great!
Getting plenty of strips so that you drive them soft enough to not use a heatsink is the path I went. Given that aluminum heatsinks cost nearly as much as strips, increasing coverage and efficiency for a marginal extra cost is definitely a thing to consider. I do have an oscillating fan above the light, and the strip temperature is 33-40°C. Not too bad considering there a tightly packed 1kW there. The canopy closest to the light (5cm away) is 28-29°C.
As for the schema, I doubt a central profile will be enough to support 4' strips without them bending. Rigid strips aren't that rigid. My 100cm strips have supports at both ends, and 5 supports in the middle holding them. (I could probably have gotten by with 2-3 supports in the center.) As such, my strips are merely resting on top of the aluminum frame -- so I can rearrange and re-purpose them over the winter.
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:36 am
by Grower
I built 2 lights using EB2 strips driven at about 400ma, I am not using heatsinks. I only made an outer frame.
(it is ugly but it is a work in progress)
Btw @OP I would make 2 or 4 different lights, not a big one.
If you are willing to do it yourself you can go cheaper and build a light with a better coverage with 4ft strips in a 4x4tent, better coverage and light distribution than a HLG product.
Did you see this post from boss LedG?
http://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-bu ... bridgelux/
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:46 pm
by Hyakutak
majorana wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:13 am
As for the schema, I doubt a central profile will be enough to support 4' strips without them bending. Rigid strips aren't that rigid. My 100cm strips have supports at both ends, and 5 supports in the middle holding them. (I could probably have gotten by with 2-3 supports in the center.) As such, my strips are merely resting on top of the aluminum frame -- so I can rearrange and re-purpose them over the winter.
It'll bend for sure, but the question is how much. 2-3cm @ edge is okay and can even improve light penetration lol, but more will be problematic!
If it bend too much, I'll do something like this:
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:00 pm
by sdfoster22
Simply2complex wrote: ↑Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:42 am
Firstly I'd like to thank anyone willing to take the time to read and or respond. Here's some needed info..
I've been growing cannabis for a long time. Breeding cannabis for roughly 7-8 years. A few years ago switched my veg lights to the "blurple" leds. While better than t5, still wasnt as solid as 400watt metal halide. Finally switched my hot 1000watt hps lights to 630 cmh fixtures a year ago with Phillips elite agro 315 bulbs. I've been less than impressed with the results. The heat is as hot in a 4x4 tent as a 1000watt hps.
So I haven't really been able to run them at 630. I've had to run them dimmed to roughly 270watts. I use multiple tents. Haven't converted to full blown rooms. It's so much easier to keep males and keep plants isolated in tents with no worries of accidental pollination.
I've been actively researching cob/led/qb for the past 3 days religiously. Reading most of the grow/builds with them on grow forums, online diy light equipment sellers and YouTube videos. Also conversations with vendors on alibaba.
Looking at quantum boards but am open to strips. I'd like 700 or less watts driven for optimum efficiency while giving great coverage in a 4x4 tent. Ideally 2700k this is pretty much just a flowering light, but I'm open to 3k. Keeping heat in check and not over-working the drivers so theres no concern with burning anything to the ground while being unattended. Whether connected to a heatsink, frame or slate. If after this initial build my happy with the results I'll replicate the build for my other tents.
Then theres price, I suppose if I can keep it under the price of a hlg-600h kit I'd be happy. I've been comparing lm301b and lm561c. Brain is just mush from all these numbers. If anyone cares to share their build, or recommend what may fit what I'm after, I'd be more than grateful.
Are you running co2? Anything above 35w sq/ft you need co2 to be able to use. Look at ledgardner's build examples for a 4x4. If You want closer to 700w look at the 5x5 builds.
http://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-bu ... bridgelux/
Re: First diy setup, need opinions & help. Please.
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:56 pm
by Hyakutak
W per sq/ft isn't a good way to tell if co2 is limiting the plant development. The only good measurement is PPFD. And the W per sq/ft value isn't telling anything about the PPFD because of the multiples variables (Distance from the canopy, diodes used, etc)
Here is a probably good schema about the limiting factor of high PPFD lights:
You probably want to shot for a PPFD of 500-600 during flower without Co2. But yes, with a 500w driver and 4 F series strip, you already get an insane PPFD of 1000 quite everywhere in a 4x4 grow space at a canopy distance of 8 inches... So 700 true watts are probably way too much without co2... And if you want to run co2, with a PPFD of 1000+ you should probably aim for 1400 ppm...