COBs vs. LED STRIPS ~

[Professor Xavier]

I talked with a grow shop owner today, he seemed pretty sure that equatorial origin plants would prefer intense light from directly above, while plants from other parts of the world respond better to light coming in from the side. Perhaps something like this might play into the question of cobs vs strips? I do remember reading that the HPS vert crowd said genetics need to be matched to grow style.

I forgot to factor that in. On the gml show a few weeks back they were talking about how most strains were tuned to hps or mh. They were saying if we had started with leds we might have completely different strains today. Let's start taking strains that respond well to leds and making them better. Lol

Yes, in my opinion, 40y ++ of selecting, breading, crossing strains under HIDs and fluoro only, has influenced today's varieties-strains... A LOT...
Even the nutrition schedule need to be improved/diversified for led only growing... even COB vs strip have different needs... (cal mag deff under led... etc...)
this could also be a good/new marketplace for new strains that are selected for led light and new fertilizer line just for led... Hydro/led and Bio/led fertilizer line nice niche... right?

Oh noes! You've caught on to my genius plan to save the world using LED mutants.
I'm not kidding. The morphological differences between phenos and even one generation of a plant's expressions to its environment are surprisingly strong.
I have no doubt selective breeding over half a century tuned indoor plants to respond to HPS.
800+PPFD high cri LED lighting is a different game altogether. Xtreme Lighting Horticulture.
Whole new variables and therefore more customization - I've also heard opinions (not facts) on how spectrum intensity affects terpene production and therefore flavour.
Custom flavour profiles anyone?
Please share your work. This is breaking new ground. Pioneering anything is exciting

[Osash78]

Hey Proff...

I'm in 1/4 of my route atm...
Now I'm selecting best Chemdawg and Bubba kush 2.0 seeds from my first batch of self-made feminized seeds...2016
I use a Colloidal silver method and got about 600 seeds x strain...
got 100% pure feminized no hermi at all...and 99% sprout success
In past year worked on selecting best-reacting phenos to 100% led light...
I'm not an expert but in my 15y of experience in indoor growing, I noticed this thing when I semi-changed to led...
So decided to start selection...
I do not know if I'm doing right, but at the moment I believe that I have little results.
Can not imagine what kind of monsters we can grow after at least 5y of professional selection and breading phenos that react well on led...
Sorry for my crap English

[Professor Xavier]

Hey Proff...

I'm in 1/4 of my route atm...
Now I'm selecting best Chemdawg and Bubba kush 2.0 seeds from my first batch of self-made feminized seeds...2016
I use a Colloidal silver method and got about 600 seeds x strain...
got 100% pure feminized no hermi at all...and 99% sprout success
In past year worked on selecting best-reacting phenos to 100% led light...
I'm not an expert but in my 15y of experience in indoor growing, I noticed this thing when I semi-changed to led...
So decided to start selection...
I do not know if I'm doing right, but at the moment I believe that I have little results.
Can not imagine what kind of monsters we can grow after at least 5y of professional selection and breading phenos that react well on led...
Sorry for my crap English

Your English is great mate. I come from Multicultural Canada so I'm well aware great ideas can hide behind a language barrier.
I think this is great news.
What spectrum are your lights and have you adjusted your spectrum since you started a year ago?
Light is light. It's the spectra, intensity and diffusion that changes. LEDs' morphological advantages for certain plants are most likely due to spectrum. That's why I want to know if you've "trained" your strain to a constant type of light. Yield advantages in LED vs HPS I suspect are mostly from light diffusion and uniformity at the moment but gene regulation should easily be able to increase that with some diminishing returns as plants optimize to these new lighting conditions.
Livinglight and LEDGARDENER have both started down the spectrum rabbit hole. Ledg has some uniquely illumunated jalapeño side by sides on youtube I just started watching if u want to bring some popcorn.

[Osash78]

[/quote]
Your English is great mate. I come from Multicultural Canada so I'm well aware great ideas can hide behind a language barrier.
I think this is great news.
What spectrum are your lights and have you adjusted your spectrum since you started a year ago?
Light is light. It's the spectra, intensity and diffusion that changes. So LED's advantages are most likely due to spectrum. That's why I want to know if you've "trained" your strain to a constant type of light.
Livinglight and LEDGARDENER have both started down that rabbit hole. Ledg has some uniquely illumunated jalapeño side by sides on youtube I just started watching if u want to bring some popcorn.
[/quote]

Thank u! Yes, hate that I cant express myself like I wish...
But all life is a learning curve... I improved my Englis by playing Wow for a long time and posting in cannabis community...
I really respect and appreciate work of all ppl u mentioned, and I'm with them all the way
What concerns my try to get better-LED pheno... well I think I have to take some time one day and make a new post on this...
Short story...
I started on flex strip on a pc driver 8000k for seedlings, on 3 nodes moved to blurple "mars hydro-green one"... at that point I'm missing - I missed Led for flower... till now I finished on 600w hps...
this is a short story without making seeds-clones-sorting-etc technique...
Now I have a lot better LED options, 20 x LT-F562B 2′ strip build 3000k - 6 x Meiju 312boards 3000k - and soon will order at least 2 new QB with Lm301b...
My goal at this point is to have pheno that will do best on 3000k led all the way from seed to end...
KISS led pheno
but this is just a drop of water in the ocean... I like to try some different strains to, do not wanna be limited to this 2 only, but because I have my own seeds etc... working with this 2 only... it takes time to make seeds...
Have u guys noticed that Automatic strains react better to LED? ... ruderalis react better... why?....
another interesting fact...
A lot ppl will hate this... but I'm not a believer of UV, deep red, Emmerson effect things... this is happening in nature so outdoor...
Outdoor growing is different than indoor... indoor plants finish faster...
In my opinion, indoor growers have to achieve good product all the way of the entire year... not to mimic nature...
maby I'm wrong but maby im not

hope this community will grow forward...

[unkle_psycho]

It's dangerous to be away for a few days. So much to comment on.

If you google Heath's vertical trees, he has selected for a type that does not even need to be topped, but the side lighting encourages 'violent' branching, so the final result is a plant with like 20 colas. I think there's the problem of finding a plant that responds well to LED, but also the strains should fit your strategy of using the space. Now I did a pheno hunt for something to grow with side lighting, and in these sativa dominant hybrids there was a lot of variation in how you would have to use them to pack up your space.

To get 'immediate' results, you need to just find a pheno that responds well, and keep the clone. But for sure it can make sense to breed your own varieties for the job. It does take a lot of time though. I won't get into it for inside plants, since I'm all about finding a way to cut plant counts, as that seems to be the main focus of our authorities.

Back in the 90s I used a 400 sodium, and I hit 2.5g/w by spending half a year doing pheno hunts to find a plant that grew a single 1oz cola with 5l of organic soil. Then i used really tall thin bags to hold the plants so I could fit over 30 plants under the light. Back then I was looking for no branching/ no empty space in colas/ happy with small root space.
I did all these runs that didn't yield shit, and everyone called me an idiot until it worked and they decided I was a genius. I was the same grower as before, I didn't really deserve credit for anything else then delayed gratification.

So you will loose a few crops using your space for pheno hunting, but if you find what your looking for, it might be time well spent.
Breeding is a whole other ball game though. You need to put in serious time, and having large populations should make a huge difference. There are some possible shortcuts, but if you want to really do things right, its hard.

[Osash78]

It's dangerous to be away for a few days. So much to comment on.

If you google Heath's vertical trees, he has selected for a type that does not even need to be topped, but the side lighting encourages 'violent' branching, so the final result is a plant with like 20 colas. I think there's the problem of finding a plant that responds well to LED, but also the strains should fit your strategy of using the space. Now I did a pheno hunt for something to grow with side lighting, and in these sativa dominant hybrids there was a lot of variation in how you would have to use them to pack up your space.

To get 'immediate' results, you need to just find a pheno that responds well, and keep the clone. But for sure it can make sense to breed your own varieties for the job. It does take a lot of time though. I won't get into it for inside plants, since I'm all about finding a way to cut plant counts, as that seems to be the main focus of our authorities.

Back in the 90s I used a 400 sodium, and I hit 2.5g/w by spending half a year doing pheno hunts to find a plant that grew a single 1oz cola with 5l of organic soil. Then i used really tall thin bags to hold the plants so I could fit over 30 plants under the light. Back then I was looking for no branching/ no empty space in colas/ happy with small root space.
I did all these runs that didn't yield shit, and everyone called me an idiot until it worked and they decided I was a genius. I was the same grower as before, I didn't really deserve credit for anything else then delayed gratification.

So you will loose a few crops using your space for pheno hunting, but if you find what your looking for, it might be time well spent.
Breeding is a whole other ball game though. You need to put in serious time, and having large populations should make a huge difference. There are some possible shortcuts, but if you want to really do things right, its hard.

Oh thank u... u calm down a bit my frustration that is why I'm going thru right now... losing space for hunt
But I can see from your comment it is worth... especially with my 2L perlite hempy perpetual sog
And YES all depend on technique and using space...
Be good

[unkle_psycho]

It's very important to know what your looking for. Then the tighter the the bottle neck you create, the larger the population should be. I'm pretty sure I found one keeper in this run, it's ice from female seeds. They say it won't grow tall, but this one seems to. It went pretty crazy with branching without side lighting, so I cant wait to see what it does with it.

About smells, I read a study that claimed adding fertilizers always affected the smell negatively, but gave more yield. I think that might be true, to quite a degree, although I'm sure there are expectations. One substance that really tweaked smells in a nice way was volcanic ash, although its effect might be bacterial.

I have a local Finnish strain I have been working on that smells varying between roses and alpine strawberries. I've never seen someone smell it without a serious freak out.

Another thing that really seems to affect flavors is climate, probably including local mycorizzai. Our government tested terpenes in herbs grown in central Europe, vs southern Finland, vs our north. The plants grown in south Finland had about 700% more terpenes then central europe, and Lapland exponentially more then our south. Many people here talk mystically about plants getting to tap into the arctic network, I don't really know.

:EDIT: don't know which plant they were studying. certainly not suggesting all plants wiuld have such a strong reaction

[majorana]

I have a local Finnish strain I have been working on that smells varying between roses and alpine strawberries. I've never seen someone smell it without a serious freak out.

I can already imagine that marketed in pink boxes