Bridgelux thrive spd

[PeteR_1]

" Its been my observation that many vendors sell their products with inadequate information in an attempt to simply increase sales."
I guess this statement seems counter intuitive but true, Im very interested in providing more information to increase sales, the issue is the fine line between reams of data and confusion, pertinent data is the goal but that is subjective, one mans pertinent is another's frustration, the DLC Listed LED Grow Light % info seems like a good concept and more is better, I would like to see simple assessments of what % and changes in % mean to growers
Cheers

"... I would like to see simple assessments of what % and changes in % mean to growers"

I'm not a "Grower" but agree that this info would be quite useful to help make "informed" comparisons and decisions. Part of the problem is that there are several established Manufacturers / Vendors that produce Grow Lights without any real pertinent info with "Proprietary Spectrums". Two that quickly come to mind are Black Dog and California LW, you would be hard pressed to get any actual info and measurements from these light manufacturers and "Growers". Spectrometer Readings / Measurements with % UV-B-G-R-FR along with PPFD, PPF and PPE are mostly what's needed to create this simple "Pertinent" Data; quantity, coverage and produce. The DLC "standard" is more than adequate, but don't see it happening anytime in the near future.

And as a gardener I can apply available published academic horticultural research on PBAR wavelengths for basic percentage SPD comparisons;

Academic Horticultural Research has shown plant species specific optimal growth (Photosynthetic Efficiency not Electrical Efficiency) occurs with;
~ 10 - 25% Blue,
~ 25% Green and
~ 50 - 65% Red / FarRed.

The Academic Horticultural Research has also shown (in general) that the supplemental wavelengths outside of the 400 - 700nm PAR spectrum;
1. UV 350 - 400nm (and increased 400 - 500nm Blue wavelengths) actually retards vegetative growth of many plants but can be beneficial when applied before harvest to increase phyto-chemicals.

2. FarRed 700 - 750nm is benefical for increased Photosynthesis, small percentage creates synergistic reactions with 600 - 700nm Red wavelengths.

3. Infra-Red, 800 nm and above has no direct benefits to photosynthesis, but produces heat.

[Horst]

I read more and more what I don’t like about bridgelux as company.
Seems they are that sort of company mard-hydro is

In my opinion it’s maybe better to think on nichia optisolis.
It’s a little less efficient but have 420nm wavelengths in it and I thought about adding these to the thrive anyway. Plus nichia give me a way better feeling with many information.
If I order some strips from outta country, the worst thing can happen is that I have to return them....

@welight did you get other thrive strips from blx? I saw the spd chart from ur testing in another forum.
If that were really thrive chips ......

[Salmonetin]

...thanks...

[PeteR_1]

...mmmmm...i saw my prefered California LW lights on the DLC horticultural lamp list...

the goal its Graphic SPD ploted on text format...to use FREE Tools...
...the other goal are the IES Files to play with other FREE Tools...

SPD ON TEXT + IES FILES TM25....for all horticultural grow lights... NEEDED NOW... but they not share or show this info....

Paz y Amor...en 2921 aun mucho mas...

Saludos desde Tenerife - Islas Canarias

The Only California LW listed is a Greenhouse Supplemental Fixture version that was recently released, none of their "Grower" Products are listed nor do they provide any real info on them... https://www.designlights.org/horticultu ... ng/search/

IMO, the IES files may provide info for light distribution and intensity, not % SPD and is not readily accessible nor necessarily relevant for most gardeners and hobbyists with small grow areas. The % SPD and PPF Outputs can be used to provide a reasonable calculation of coverage without any additional software, especially for LED Strips which are not High intensity Discharge Light sources...

[Salmonetin]

...thanks...

[PeteR_1]

...mmmmm...i saw my prefered California LW lights on the DLC horticultural lamp list...

the goal its Graphic SPD ploted on text format...to use FREE Tools...
...the other goal are the IES Files to play with other FREE Tools...

SPD ON TEXT + IES FILES TM25....for all horticultural grow lights... NEEDED NOW... but they not share or show this info....

Paz y Amor...en 2921 aun mucho mas...

Saludos desde Tenerife - Islas Canarias

The Only California LW listed is a Greenhouse Supplemental Fixture version that was recently released, none of their "Grower" Products are listed nor do they provide any real info on them...

IMO, the IES files may provide info for light distribution and intensity, not % SPD and is not readily accessible nor necessarily relevant for most gardeners and hobbyists with small grow areas.

The % SPD and PPF Outputs can be used to provide a reasonable calculation of coverage without any additional software, especially for LED Strips which are not High intensity Discharge Light sources...

The Only California LW listed is a Greenhouse Supplemental Fixture version that was recently released, none of their "Grower" Products are listed nor do they provide any real info on them...

recent release?...mmmm not for my pov...

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/company-ne ... ol-network

2019... for my pov... actually there are better leds...on osram... actually seems to me they have better bins too...

but hey its my preference ...too inspirative for my future DIY lamps...

light controllers on private bluetooth mesh net....with good leds on pcb.... good drivers...

...maybe they dont share or show their IES Files...but....are Osram then...i can use other tools too...
...i can imitate lot of SPDs they can show me ...on diy way...maybe aided with other leds from Osram....not only Oslons...there are other curious leds on osram.... and seems to me with better color mix than Cali lights... but serves me to compare ...at least on DLC there are good info ...maybe better with SPD on text + IES Files...

maybe you can go without aditional software... i prefer use free softwares tools offline....im too poor...

my prefered lamp is too inspirative...and without buy or need nothing...still learning a lot...from comercial or profesional...or industrial.... im an old electrician...then....no problemo...for me...

Thanks for the link to the press release of Meshtek controls for their Lights, Its great that they can be automated, but it doesn't provide any basic info on their "regular" Grow Lights.
Something as simple as; What are the PPF of their non Greenhouse lights? Their 250, 275, 500, 550. 1000 and 1100 Watt fixtures... https://californialightworks.com/collec ... tem-series or https://californialightworks.com/collec ... eme-series

The manufacturers that have opted for DLC Listing have provided test reports with SPD, Intensity Distribution Charts and Photon Distribution.... https://www.designlights.org/horticultu ... ng/search/
This can provide lots of useful info for DIY Builds, because the successful fixtures can be emulated with equivalent spectrum and outputs.

[Welight]

Seems we have generated some really good flow of information on this. I can share my testing on some 98 cri chips.
This was a single diode mounted on a star PCB and enclosed in 4inch PVC tube with spectral sensor on top, so around 10 inches from light source. All leds tested identical method with bench supply set to 70ma.
Results

So couple of points. I distribute Bridgelux so have no axe to grind, Im guessing these parts are incorrect and we are returning them. That said while they have the highest output at 70ma they also have the highest forward voltage. One concern also is the Thrive is max drive of 80ma so we are nearly maxed at 70ma. The clear winner on efficacy is Lumileds at 2.71v which along with a great spectrum makes it a really nice part. Spectrally the optisolis is a fuller and more complete spectrum. For me the Cree and the Lumileds are close for out of the box performance at around 70% of the cost of Optisolis
cheers

[PeteR_1]

Seems we have generated some really good flow of information on this. I can share my testing on some 98 cri chips.
This was a single diode mounted on a star PCB and enclosed in 4inch PVC tube with spectral sensor on top, so around 10 inches from light source. All leds tested identical method with bench supply set to 70ma.
Results

So couple of points. I distribute Bridgelux so have no axe to grind, Im guessing these parts are incorrect and we are returning them. That said while they have the highest output at 70ma they also have the highest forward voltage. One concern also is the Thrive is max drive of 80ma so we are nearly maxed at 70ma. The clear winner on efficacy is Lumileds at 2.71v which along with a great spectrum makes it a really nice part. Spectrally the optisolis is a fuller and more complete spectrum. For me the Cree and the Lumileds are close for out of the box performance at around 70% of the cost of Optisolis
cheers

Thanks for sharing this info.

My conclusion from the posted info is that the Bridgelux may be the most efficient, if it was run softer at lower amps (Watts) it might still provide more light than the other LEDs. Bridgelux is approx;
4% more Watts and 11% more PPFD than Cree,
7% more Watts and 11% more PPFD than Lumileds,
4% more Watts and 34% more PPFD than Nichia.

The SPD Chart alone is not enough info, the SPD charts are sometimes misleading, they only show the distribution relative to the highest Wavelength output. The Percentage Wavelength Distribution (%B-G-R-FR), if also available could then be used to compare the actual spectrum content pertinent to use as an horticultural light. The SPD Chart does show that Bridgelux has more 420nm wavelengths that the other LEDs.

IMO, Quantifying horticultural grow light percentage wavelength distribution is Pertinent info that was usually misunderstood, lacking or completely missing but is now at least available with DLC Listed Horticultural Light Fixtures and the info can be extrapolated to DIY Fixtures.

[Horst]

Very very interesting to read from u all. Thanks to all of u.

I think on giving up so much efficiency just for on reason. If u grow fruit plants.....there are much scientific understanding but very contradicting and even more different experiences from people.
Best example....little blue the plant is stretching, much blue the plant grow compact, only blue stretching...
I think many things we dumb and arrogant humans don’t understand

So conclusion for me is that I don’t want too high peaks or too low dips. 400-430nm, 480nm, 650-680nm...
All cri90 I know have only 40-45% cyan.
I get to know nature like this....if there is only a small range of some wavelengths like cyan u can bet that it do special things. Maybe small things on second look.

With a mix cri97 5000k opti or 5700k thrive to cri80 4000k 2:1 for veg and 2700k eb gen3 cri90 for flower u can get an acceptable efficiency too.
And no need of monos is a good thing for me too.

Any thought or criticism on this? Am just building the knowledge and Never finished i think

Greets

[PeteR_1]

Very very interesting to read from u all. Thanks to all of u.

I think on giving up so much efficiency just for on reason. If u grow fruit plants.....there are much scientific understanding but very contradicting and even more different experiences from people.
Best example....little blue the plant is stretching, much blue the plant grow compact, only blue stretching...
I think many things we dumb and arrogant humans don’t understand

So conclusion for me is that I don’t want too high peaks or too low dips. 400-430nm, 480nm, 650-680nm...
All cri90 I know have only 40-45% cyan.
I get to know nature like this....if there is only a small range of some wavelengths like cyan u can bet that it do special things. Maybe small things on second look.

With a mix cri97 5000k opti or 5700k thrive to cri80 4000k 2:1 for veg and 2700k eb gen3 cri90 for flower u can get an acceptable efficiency too.
And no need of monos is a good thing for me too.

Any thought or criticism on this? Am just building the knowledge and Never finished i think
Greets

The Academic Horticultural Research has consistently shown that broad (wide) spectrum PAR light produces healthiest plants but also that plants adapt to available light spectrum and intensity.
It has to be considered that the plants may not use the high quantities of any specific "Supplemental" wavelengths Blue or Red just because we add them. Though currently some manufacturers are adding lots of 660nm Red to increase Electrical Efficiency (PPE).


McCree / Solar overlay shows the "average response" compared to Sunlight and that a possible "increased percentage" of Violet, Yellow, Orange and Red could increase photosynthesis.


I'm not a "Grower" just an average gardener, but a basic understanding of Percentage Wavelength Distribution (% B-G-R-FR) and its application can increase production when applied to almost any DIY grow light.
Some info for discussion;
Migro;
Oct, 2017... https://www.migrolight.com/best-grow-light-spectrum/
CLW; And, as mentioned by @Salmonetin CLW has an article and some info on their three (3) Channel LED Controller that is pertinent to this discussion and can be applied to DIY LED Grow Lights.
Jul, 2016... https://news.californialightworks.com/u ... ogenetics/

Video of Programmable 3 Channel Controller...





CLW "adjusted" Blue - White-Red SPD Charts

Their Suggested preliminary Spectrum Settings ('based on almost a decade and hundreds of Growers') are;
Growth Stage - Blue : White : Red (Channels are 0 - 99%)
Seedling – B99 : W49 : R39 (Varies)
Vegetative – B99 : W99 : R50 (Varies)
Pre-Flower – B50 : W99 : R99 (1 - 2 Wks)
Flowering – B40 : W99 : R99 (6 - 8 Wks)
Finishing – B99 : W99 : R39 (1 -2 Wks)

A possible Comparable Spectrum / Settings for Bridgelux Vesta 2750G (2700K and 5000K 90 CRI) LED Strips with a known %SPD in a DIY Fixture;
Growth Stage - B% : G% : R% (% - CCT)
Seedling – 27% : 36% : 32% (100% - 5000K)
Vegetative – 27% : 36% : 32% (100% - 5000K)
Pre-Flower – 19% : 36% : 39% (50%:50% - 2700K:5000k)
Flowering – 11% : 35% : 47% (100% - 2700K)
Finishing – 27% : 36% : 32% (100% - 5000K and UVA, if used)

Oct, 2017... https://www.migrolight.com/best-grow-light-spectrum/


IMO, There is no way to realistically compare disparate LEDs and reach conclusions without the additional info provided by %SPD, the SPD Charts alone are inadequate for the job.