About to buy an Apogee MQ500. Anything to consider first?

[unkle_psycho]

BTW whats that spectrum?

[TEKNIK]

I will have a range of supplement spectrums in a few months, they will range from 385nm to 730nm, possibly even 365nm too.
The idea of them is to add a bit of extra grunt to a current set up without breaking the budget. 730nm can be used as end of day on a separate timer and also for general use. It's a new concept but something I have wanted to manufacturer for many years.
If you have a spectrometer you will be able to see exactly how the supplement light blend with your current spectrum and although I would suggest trials in a smaller area first you may want to add these to the entire grow area. Every strain will react differently to each spectrum and once you know what works best for the strains you are growing then you can make an educated decision to fill the entire grow area. It is possible that you could add in a supplement and it has little or no benefit at all, no point in wasting money if that's the case.

The spectrum you are showing in the photo comes from an assentek hand held spectrometer, looks like it's from HLG, I have noticed that there is something wrong with the spectrum and it is out of calibration or over saturated when Stephen shows the spectrums, I forgot to mention it to him when I was on RIU. The red peak shouldn't look like it does, it's a spike but it should be a smooth curve. If you look at the lab reports they have with many of thier products you will see how the spectrum should look.

[TEKNIK]

Ok. My question here is, how would I fine tune the spectral output of my LED's? Wouldn't I have to mix and match didoes on custom broads to do that? Is it really unwise to assume the diodes are producing the spectrum that Samsung claims they will?


I have considered adding far red strips since the research shows adding far-red light increases quantum yield of photosystem II (presumably due to preferential excitation of photosystem I) by 3.6%. But that has not been translated in to increased product yield by any research that I'm aware of. For the cots of adding the far red to pay itself off in a single run, the far-red would have to add about 48 grams yield to each light. My guess is it would take about 12 runs for the investment in far-red to pay itself off. That's a bit over 24 months. By then I'm hoping for better options to be on the market.I suspect diodes or boards with truer full spectrum, including far red and far blue, will be coming out, and getting cheaper soon.

I cant expect to get better prices for increases in quality as I am already topped out on the high end of indoor prices, based on my current quality. Of course the buyers would like it but they wont pay any more. They cant because the dispensaries wont pay any more themselves.

Since the first light I made with the F-series 3500K and the high voltage driver far out produced my gavits, and used around 30% less energy to do it, simply matching that result puts me WAY ahead of the average grower in m area and dramatically increase profit. For now, my main concern is ensuring that the builds using 3000k strips being driven slightly softer will produce similar results.

Unfortunately (maybe) after the successful test of the first light, I built 4 more using 3K strips instead of 35k and switched to slightly less powerful drivers.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4340

This is exactly what I've been wondering for the last few months. I've been leaning on getting less powerful frequencies as starboards from steves led, and more powerful frequencies as strips from cutter.

There are a couple of different logics I thought I would pursue by making a couple of different supplemental recipes into 2x2's, and comparing the results. I was thinking of exaggerating a little with some of them, just to see if I can get clear differences. So for example instead of adding a little red I might run one 50:50 with white and 660nm.

I was planning on making another fixture into high CRI, so slow curve into UV and far red, and fix the dip after 450nm. Now teknik has been going on about the nichias, and I don't have a spectrometer... I might just get the 98CRI nichias as a comparison, and if the high CRI approach bears special results, I can explore it with discrete diodes.

730nm is probably the addition I wanted most, and for longest. I want to make the sleep initiation. I think there is enough evidence for that, I don't even care to test that, just want it done. Naturally they can also be kept on during normal lights on hours for a boost in CRI and perhaps a little emerson effect... I just heared that the emerson effect would be at its strongest in weak lighting, so while worth testing, it might be better not to take it for granted.

The reason I suggest the nichia optisolis 5000k is for a few reasons, first they have a 420nm pump, this is something not available with most companies although SSC also has one similar, second is Cyan at around 470-480nm, Cyan is a difficult spectrum to get and you can see by anything offered by HLG and most other companies that it is clearly lacking, third is that it is a true full spectrum with everything from 420mm all the way through to a touch of 730nm. This does come at the cost of efficiency and from tests I have conducted the nichia optisolis in 5000k are at about 2.1m/joule when run @65mA.
There is no better base spectrum available that covers all of this spectrum range though, from that base it is perfect to then fine tune a spectrum to what works best for you. It will work fantastic as a VEG spectrum on its own but flowering may require some monos or other blends such as phosphor converted red to improve results. It is not cheap to trial this and you will use more electricity but if results improve dramatically then who cares about a bit more power consumption.

[randorson]

Ok. My question here is, how would I fine tune the spectral output of my LED's? Wouldn't I have to mix and match didoes on custom broads to do that? Is it really unwise to assume the diodes are producing the spectrum that Samsung claims they will?


I have considered adding far red strips since the research shows adding far-red light increases quantum yield of photosystem II (presumably due to preferential excitation of photosystem I) by 3.6%. But that has not been translated in to increased product yield by any research that I'm aware of. For the cots of adding the far red to pay itself off in a single run, the far-red would have to add about 48 grams yield to each light. My guess is it would take about 12 runs for the investment in far-red to pay itself off. That's a bit over 24 months. By then I'm hoping for better options to be on the market.I suspect diodes or boards with truer full spectrum, including far red and far blue, will be coming out, and getting cheaper soon.

I cant expect to get better prices for increases in quality as I am already topped out on the high end of indoor prices, based on my current quality. Of course the buyers would like it but they wont pay any more. They cant because the dispensaries wont pay any more themselves.

Since the first light I made with the F-series 3500K and the high voltage driver far out produced my gavits, and used around 30% less energy to do it, simply matching that result puts me WAY ahead of the average grower in m area and dramatically increase profit. For now, my main concern is ensuring that the builds using 3000k strips being driven slightly softer will produce similar results.

Unfortunately (maybe) after the successful test of the first light, I built 4 more using 3K strips instead of 35k and switched to slightly less powerful drivers.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4340

This is exactly what I've been wondering for the last few months. I've been leaning on getting less powerful frequencies as starboards from steves led, and more powerful frequencies as strips from cutter.

There are a couple of different logics I thought I would pursue by making a couple of different supplemental recipes into 2x2's, and comparing the results. I was thinking of exaggerating a little with some of them, just to see if I can get clear differences. So for example instead of adding a little red I might run one 50:50 with white and 660nm.

I was planning on making another fixture into high CRI, so slow curve into UV and far red, and fix the dip after 450nm. Now teknik has been going on about the nichias, and I don't have a spectrometer... I might just get the 98CRI nichias as a comparison, and if the high CRI approach bears special results, I can explore it with discrete diodes.

730nm is probably the addition I wanted most, and for longest. I want to make the sleep initiation. I think there is enough evidence for that, I don't even care to test that, just want it done. Naturally they can also be kept on during normal lights on hours for a boost in CRI and perhaps a little emerson effect... I just heared that the emerson effect would be at its strongest in weak lighting, so while worth testing, it might be better not to take it for granted.

The reason I suggest the nichia optisolis 5000k is for a few reasons, first they have a 420nm pump, this is something not available with most companies although SSC also has one similar, second is Cyan at around 470-480nm, Cyan is a difficult spectrum to get and you can see by anything offered by HLG and most other companies that it is clearly lacking, third is that it is a true full spectrum with everything from 420mm all the way through to a touch of 730nm. This does come at the cost of efficiency and from tests I have conducted the nichia optisolis in 5000k are at about 2.1m/joule when run @65mA.
There is no better base spectrum available that covers all of this spectrum range though, from that base it is perfect to then fine tune a spectrum to what works best for you. It will work fantastic as a VEG spectrum on its own but flowering may require some monos or other blends such as phosphor converted red to improve results. It is not cheap to trial this and you will use more electricity but if results improve dramatically then who cares about a bit more power consumption.

nichia optisolis 5000k look amazing!

https://www.cutter.com.au/led-technolog ... optisolis/

Pre-monted on strips is my preferred form factor. I see the nichia sunlike and the nichia optisolis for sale, on strips in Europe. Not seeing them for sale in the US.

https://www.lumitronix.com/en_gb/linear ... 34297.html

https://www.lumitronix.com/en_gb/linear ... 31332.html

[grisbi]

hello guyz!
i also wanna buy an apogee
but can someone explain me the difference between the SQ500 and M500 serie?
its say the sq serie is autopowered, but i dont really understand everything!
cheers guyz!

[randorson]

The MQ series detects wavelengths from 389 to 692 nm. (BETTER)
The SQ series detects wavelengths from 410 nm to 655 nm

[randorson]

These look interesting,
https://www.cutter.com.au/product/sol-strip-br/

[TEKNIK]

The sol strips make it easy to do colour mixing, channel 1 5K optisolis for VEG and channel 2 cri90 nichia V3 for flower and 730nm center channel for end of day is a good combination. Can run the 730nm while the main lighting is on also. It's not a cheap solution but if you experiment and it works for you then it's worth it to go further and buy more.

[unkle_psycho]

Its crazy how cool products cutter has.

I need to do some more number crunching on the different options between SSC and nitchia, what build options are available at different costs. Like these German nitchias are 30e for max 1600lm and the other one is the same price but puts out a bit more... Need to compare power levels to cutters strips to figure which is cheaper. Already been looking at SSC COBs at digikey, just been slow on the trigger because I never built COBs...

Quite interested in the significance of the blue pump location, and how much of a difference it might make to have a 'wider' softer blue area. I see Cutter has a blue strip where they combine discretes over the entire blue spectrum, I wonder if anyone did any experiments with that. There have been a lot of reports on the toxicity of blue light in various applications, so at some level I imagine the nature of the blue spectrum portion might have some significance...

[grisbi]

Its crazy how cool products cutter has.

I need to do some more number crunching on the different options between SSC and nitchia, what build options are available at different costs. Like these German nitchias are 30e for max 1600lm and the other one is the same price but puts out a bit more... Need to compare power levels to cutters strips to figure which is cheaper. Already been looking at SSC COBs at digikey, just been slow on the trigger because I never built COBs...

Quite interested in the significance of the blue pump location, and how much of a difference it might make to have a 'wider' softer blue area. I see Cutter has a blue strip where they combine discretes over the entire blue spectrum, I wonder if anyone did any experiments with that. There have been a lot of reports on the toxicity of blue light in various applications, so at some level I imagine the nature of the blue spectrum portion might have some significance...

welcome to the cutter club! theire quality production with the new wago is just perfect, but its take time to get them, if you are patient, rush on it!
i my experience and oppinion:

best combo:
solstrip:
1st channel: nichia 5000k optisolis / nichia 4000k 80cri
2nd channel: nichia 2000k / nichia 3500k
3rd channel :12 x cree xqe : 660 (6) + 730 (4) + uv ( 2 )

with that combo:
very high cri + good lm/w , possibility to swith from veg to flow mode activating 1st channel or 2 nd channel or both to use them "lightly" and on addition the 660 + emmerson effect + little bite of uv.

edit:
@TEKNIK : can you tell me if you blue and red led can be integrate on solstrip with 48v mode? i cannot change all my driver, would be amazing to get them in my configuration!