Series / Parallel Risk / Reward EB strips

[PeteR_1]

Thanks fir the calm and mature discussion guys. What i are wondering about, high voltage has its risks and high ampere too.
With high voltage u got a little higher risk to get a
But with high ampere a U would have more damage if it happen.
But very difficult to weight one against another.

But I have one question for the pro‘s.
The bxeb strips have a 60v dc limit. I read this too. But why? I read a discussion from very experienced guys with knowledge about Samsung strips with measuring, numbers porn and testing... Conclusion was that the limit of the pcb‘s is 2000v dc cause of the connectors. There are guys going over it and that’s insane and crazy for me

Are there such differences in pcb‘s or is blx just super careful? I didn’t find such an 60v dc limit nowhere else in datasheets.

Greets

The LED Strip's 18 AWG Max connectors have typical maximum ratings (up to); UL 600 V, ... IEC/EN 320 V / Surge 2.5kV... https://datasheet.octopart.com/2060-451 ... 222450.pdf
Again its "Circular Logic" to claim that just because the "Connectors" are rated at 2,500 Volts Surge the LED Strips are capable of working at 2500 Volts, or even 600 Volts...

Samsung is also currently publishing similar 60Vdc max rating for their LED Strips, note the Horticulture L-2 Strip Datasheet Page # 3... https://cdn.samsung.com/led/file/resour ... ev.1.0.pdf
60 VDC maintains SELV Ratings when coupled with SELV Rated LED Drivers (MeanWell LED Drivers < 57 Vdc)... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extra-low_voltage

[Popl111]

We all get there is a limit but why? What are the real risks at pushing that and most importantly what are the chances of these risks even happening in a good environment I see alot of "you cant because they have a suggested limit" if its unsafe tell us why and the chances of falure not just because they said not to because nobody cares about their suggested rating if we see everyone else exceeding it with no consequence

[Horst]

Ok thanks. I searched for the information if pcbs are the same.
60v dc makes no sense for me at all now. At other place the people are learned to wire serial for years now. They made tools for finding the right driver to do serial in every case below 2000v. Not a single opinion. Big swiss grower forum fir example .......
I would not do this extreme but below 200v is not extreme voltage.....

What i don’t like is making People afraid of „very high“ voltage and ignoring the risks of high ampere. Both are risky on different ways. At the end high power electricity diy is risky in every case and this I miss on both sides of the discussion very much.
Parallel has the potential to burn ur house down too if there make a mistake or with really really bad luck.
In my opinion these limits are super duper security limits for people don’t know what they do. Plus Ur leds can go to hell faster if they work in different temperatures for example. And plus the companies don’t have to care about...just writing 60v dc limit in dataset. Then u have to do parallel with all the technical disadvantages and less lifespan....
If it’s possible to test the pcbs at 2000v dc and above......and the connectors be the limit not the pcbs......then I know how to rate the 60v dc limit for me.

Both are possible ways to wire with advantages and disadvantages.
I don’t know why this is one of these extreme topics. Only met people who are 1000% for parallel or 1000% for serial. That’s ideological and missionary.

Am sry for direct texting but I think on the people who start to learn about these things and it’s not the holy parallel or the holy serial thing.

Best wishes ..... am exhausted

[PeteR_1]

Just as AC Circuits follow prescribed Engineered Specifications and Practices there are DC Circuit Electrical Specification that prescribe the size, spacing, volts and current, LED Manufacturers and LED Driver Manufacturers have posted their Prescriptive recommendations (Specs.). As previously mentioned "High Voltage" increases the chances of failure, arcing at connections and across any damaged or defective insulation and overheating due to trace sizing and length.


Typical Parallel, Series/Parallel and Parallel/Daisy Chained Circuits can be wired to maintain SELV rating of 60 Vdc maximum.


Yes, you can size and wire the circuits at your discretion disregarding the specifications and ratings, but along with operating outside the ratings I'm almost certain that doing so may also void many warranties. IMO, its like using a 120 Vac / 10 Amp extension cord for a 277 Vac / 10 Amps Circuit just because the the amperage is the same, disregarding the actual Watts (rated 1200 Watt cord compared to 2770 Watt Circuit)... Good luck.

[Horst]

So higher ampere don’t change the risk for u?

Look at ledtech.de for example, they advices you as company to wire serial.

What i really don’t like is that someone can think....serial high voltage dangerous but parallel high ampere am safe.
That’s not the case both is dangerous the nearly same. Also u don’t say a Word that Ur leds will have less lifetime.

I really think this limit comes from the ridiculous small voltage law we have......and one last point, these strips are not made for wiring a dozen wether it’s parallel or serial in a growroom.

I met people doing the same just opposite. Making everybody afraid when NOT doing serial. Hate it.

Again my point both are ways and to push people with making afraid in ur direction without showing g alternative I don’t like .
It’s like talking with a politician.

Greets

[PeteR_1]

So higher ampere don’t change the risk for u?

Look at ledtech.de for example, they advices you as company to wire serial.

What i really don’t like is that someone can think....serial high voltage dangerous but parallel high ampere am safe.
That’s not the case both is dangerous the nearly same. Also u don’t say a Word that Ur leds will have less lifetime.

I really think this limit comes from the ridiculous small voltage law we have......and one last point, these strips are not made for wiring a dozen wether it’s parallel or serial in a growroom.

I met people doing the same just opposite. Making everybody afraid when NOT doing serial. Hate it.

Again my point both are ways and to push people with making afraid in ur direction without showing g alternative I don’t like .
It’s like talking with a politician.

Greets

I do not consider the 300 to 600 Watts ‘High Amperage’ wired Series or Parallel, there are lower Possible risks / hazards with lower Volts, it’s not my opinion just a fact. It only requires 20 - 100 mA AC and 300 - 400 mA DC to cause injury or death, it’s easier for this to happen with higher voltages.

300 - 600 Watts wired to LEDs in a single fixture would have the same available current wired Series or Parallel, it requires more wire for Parallel, increasing material and labor costs, which is one reason why Serial Wiring / Higher Volts in individual fixtures is sometime preferred in commercial production. LED manufacturers can design, construct and produce their PCBs With ratings for use with Serial Wiring and higher Voltage requiring wider spacing and sometimes thinner traces with higher resistance, it would meet their specific ratings.

The high junction temperatures at the individual LED caused by the actual Amps / Current / Watts at the LED is what reduces their lifespan, and this is not a factor of the external Series or Parallel wiring in a properly sized system, e.g., a 300 Watt Fixture with 10 LED Strips wired in Series or Parallel will provide the same 30 Watts per Strip, just the Voltages and Driver will be different.

I’m not looking to get anyone to change their opinion, just stating the actual facts.

Edit;
Just reread my post and “visualized“ the LED Drivers as the possible cause of the misunderstanding.

In the 300 Watt fixture example with 10 LED Strips @ 25 Vf each, the 250 Vdc Series Driver is 1.2 Amps and a 25 Vdc Parallel Driver is 12 Amps, but at the wiring junction the Parallel Driver will still output 1.2 Amps to each Strip. Personally I would wire in a 2-Series/5-Parallel Circuit which would provide 6.0 Amps and 50 Vdc...

[Horst]

No that’s not the main reasons I think. I read myself into the topic in the last months and tried to find my way in new terrain.
For me 2 points are important. Not the more wiring.

With parallel every led gets not the same power. It depends on the working temperature which can not be the same. In the middle of the strips for example is hotter than the outside strip. I don’t like that. Mainpoint for me.

Parallel u loose a little efficiency compared with „in row“
But it’s not so much with a smart Installation....

And if a would happen, than it depends on the ampere which kind of injury will happen.
I learned that in school. That’s official the reason we have 240v instead of 120v but I know u can explain the opposite with the opposite arguments

At the end I do a safe installation without loose cables or ventis falling down( knock on wood 3 times)

Maybe take two small instead of one big driver is a good thing in every case....

Good discussion
Greets

[PeteR_1]

No that’s not the main reasons I think. I read myself into the topic in the last months and tried to find my way in new terrain.
For me 2 points are important. Not the more wiring.

With parallel every led gets not the same power. It depends on the working temperature which can not be the same. In the middle of the strips for example is hotter than the outside strip. I don’t like that. Mainpoint for me.

Parallel u loose a little efficiency compared with „in row“
But it’s not so much with a smart Installation....

And if a would happen, than it depends on the ampere which kind of injury will happen.
I learned that in school. That’s official the reason we have 240v instead of 120v but I know u can explain the opposite with the opposite arguments

At the end I do a safe installation without loose cables or ventis falling down( knock on wood 3 times)

Maybe take two small instead of one big driver is a good thing in every case....

Good discussion
Greets

Thank for the reply.

The “different temperatures” within a Strip would not be caused by any external Serial or Parallel wiring.

And any possible losses (increased wire resistance) due to Parallel wiring would be eliminated with adequately / properly sized connecting wire, for example, using 18 AWG minimum instead of 22 or 24 AWG.

I would be interested in reading these discussions, could you please post a link? Thanks...

[Horst]

Grower.ch it’s a Swiss Forum with German language. They have an English section too but I don’t know if the people are the same...

[Horst]

And I meant temperature difference between different strips......