Deep red and far red diodes

[bvolt]

Start talking about phytochromes and photomorphogenesis and most people's eyes glaze over...

Phytochrome (plural) switch between states (Pr (phytochrome-red) and Pfr (phytochrome-far-red)) based on the wavelength of light they absorb and are responsible for all manner of cellular mechanisms: seed germination, stem and leaf elongation/shape, the rate of photosynthesis, flowering, etc.

In my 2 x 4, I use 20 x 660nm Cree XQ-Es @ 35W (about 10% of my total wattage) in addition to the 40 Nichia 660s in the Fusion boards (Photon Fantom) - I'm not sure of the radiometric output of just the Nichia's on these boards - I haven't done the math or even figured out the wiring scheme, to be honest,

Unrelated to the phytochrome discussion - I think when there's a metric to measure it, we'll find green light is more important than previously believed (I just picked up a bunch of green/cyan and lime Luxeon Rebel and Cree XP-Es).

Great topic.

[LivingLight]

Do you do lectures?? I would be in the front row!!!! again taking a few times reading thru to understand it.. but it makes sense, kind of like how I'm never instantly awake first thing in the morning.. it takes awhile.. especially when I use my personal 730nm ( lol I take cbd capsules for insomnia about a hour before I want to pass out) to help me go to sleep faster.

I love that I can take your "way over my head" scientific answer and use common sense so I can relate to what your saying . you explain things well... at lease I'm starting to get it.

cheers

Even if i'm using scientific evidences and common sense, my conclusion is still an assumption and the truth could be totally the opposite . I like to bring some science into such a topic to help people make their own way, then i give my opinion but these are 2 very different things.
I've never seen such a cbd capsule, is it soft? Or are you instantly sleeping like an usual sleeping pill.

Very nice read

I was thinking that the Red from my 3000K QB288's should be sufficient combined with some Far Red.

So have anybody done a Far Red build? and is it worthwhile, or should we just buy something like the Far Red puck?

What about adding blue and UV-A at certain points in the cycle?

What would be the ultimate spectrum tweak to add to a white light setup?

I'm using solderless XP-E far red from rapidled. You don't need a bunch of far-red light if you are not adding extra red.
Blue is very important for sure but concerning the UV-A it's way more specific applications imo.
For a short day plant, i think a warm white with some blue and far-red leds on a switch (or dimming) make you able to optimize major parameters.

Unrelated to the phytochrome discussion - I think when there's a metric to measure it, we'll find green light is more important than previously believed (I just picked up a bunch of green/cyan and lime Luxeon Rebel and Cree XP-Es).

Great topic.

About the green part, some scientist think it's a very good photosynthetic radiation at high irradiance in white light. What is actually well known is its ability to trigger Shade avoidance syndrome, and it seems it's related to the cryptochrome.
A very interesting part of the spectrum for sure.

[bvolt]

About the green part, some scientist think it's a very good photosynthetic radiation at high irradiance in white light. What is actually well known is its ability to trigger Shade avoidance syndrome, and it seems it's related to the cryptochrome.
A very interesting part of the spectrum for sure.

Absolutely, shade avoidance (plant's response to being crowded by taller plants, by shooting upward when it otherwise wouldn't) is the most commonly known response. Due to the fact that the only light the plant is receiving in this circumstance, is from directly above... and at this angle, the wavelength of the light is in the green range.

[Jolly Green Giant]

I've never seen such a cbd capsule, is it soft? Or are you instantly sleeping like an usual sleeping pill.

it's like a normal capsule, the ones you can pull apart. for my body/system ( we know everyone is different in how they react and I'm also a giant.. normally most things I have to take/do more because of my mass ) I can take 1 capsule and about a hour, hour and a half I just feel my eyes getting heavy and my body relaxes then I can sleep thru the night, and wake up feeling good... I take 2, within a hour I'm feeling like the "other types" of sleeping pills that just knock you out cold! then I sleep for 8-10 hours straight. along with the somewhat groggy feeling in the morning that goes along with other sleeping aids.

here's a link to the company that makes them. along with their other products. https://hempbombs.com. but I get mine from a local "smoke shop".. the 5 packs are only 8.99 instead of 14.99. they only carry the capsules and gummies.. so I haven't tried the gel, creams, or syrups etc.

every time I go, It seems I start B.S. ing with someone there telling them how well they work for me and to try some... now there's a dozen or so people that use them for insomnia like I do!! mainly people my parents generation and older, that don't like the pills they are on or can't afford them!!

[PurpleGunRack]

I was thinking about building a system where I have photored 660nm and far red +680nm on for about an hour before lights off, and far red on alone 15 minutes after lights off, for Emerson effect / flower initiation / faster transition to sleep mode - to supplement my 3000K QB's, what do you guys think about that?

[LivingLight]

it's like a normal capsule, the ones you can pull apart. for my body/system ( we know everyone is different in how they react and I'm also a giant.. normally most things I have to take/do more because of my mass ) I can take 1 capsule and about a hour, hour and a half I just feel my eyes getting heavy and my body relaxes then I can sleep thru the night, and wake up feeling good... I take 2, within a hour I'm feeling like the "other types" of sleeping pills that just knock you out cold! then I sleep for 8-10 hours straight. along with the somewhat groggy feeling in the morning that goes along with other sleeping aids.

1 pill's effect sounds pretty good, but i'm a tiny man so i guess i would need something lighter.
The problem is i don't like the idea to take a pill, so maybe i'll try the syrup or something else

I was thinking about building a system where I have photored 660nm and far red +680nm on for about an hour before lights off, and far red on alone 15 minutes after lights off, for Emerson effect / flower initiation / faster transition to sleep mode - to supplement my 3000K QB's, what do you guys think about that?

I'm not sure about your far-red, 680+ what is it exactly? Usually we are using 710-750nm range to target the phytochrome Pfr. For floral initiation, the most efficient is to apply far red a bit before and maintain it 15min after the light's switching off. But without any red or deep-red because it's doing exactly the opposite.

[bvolt]

I was thinking about building a system where I have photored 660nm and far red +680nm on for about an hour before lights off, and far red on alone 15 minutes after lights off, for Emerson effect / flower initiation / faster transition to sleep mode - to supplement my 3000K QB's, what do you guys think about that?

To take full advantage of the Emerson Effect, you can run photo (660) and far-red (730) for the entire "lights-on" cycle.

During flowering, you'd leave the far-red (730) on for an additional 5-60 mins

• this doesn't require a ton of photons, so it really depends on the source
• the Emerson Effect - I've read, requires about 10% of your total light output to be in the 660-730 range

[PurpleGunRack]

With 3000K I'd say 10% or more is in 660nm area, but how much 730nm should be added to this for proper use of the Emerson effect?

After reading your replies, and reading more on the subject, and window shopping at Rapid, I'm more inclined to buy only 730nm diodes which would also be easier build-wise.


9x https://www.rapidled.com/solderless-cre ... r-red-led/
9x https://www.rapidled.com/large-single-led-heatsink/
~15x https://www.rapidled.com/20-led-to-led-wire-solderless/
Not sure what driver to use, but so far this one is what I've come up up with: https://www.tme.eu/en/details/apc-12e-7 ... mean-well/
And some aluminium L-channel as fixture

Used to think in Cobs and strips, it's a new world with these monos, also what's your take on serial vs. parallel here?

Edit: Or should I just skip those heat sinks, and spend the money on more diodes and just tape them to some U-channel?

[bvolt]

Sorry, what that should have said was for white light LED users, we should look to supplement an additional 10% of red.

And again, I’ve read 20% of that should be 730 to 80% 660.

The Rapid kit has a total of 20 LEDs, 12 660s and 8 730s.

So, it’s a crapshoot.

[PurpleGunRack]

Not sure what I'll end up building but 8-12x 730nm diodes for flower initiation will be added for sure. I could just buy the puck, but I want to spread out the diodes (and learn how to bake the bread myself)

The more I look at this the easier it seems, the solderless diodes are easy to work with, I'm a little unsure about the driver choices, but I most certainly prefer something with AC input.

If a driver says 9-24v and 0,7A, how do I know the voltage ? Doesn't look like it's dimmable...
https://www.tme.eu/en/details/apc-16-70 ... mean-well/

I'm wondering if it would be better to just go all in and build a full signal wavelength lamp, but I'm just not sure when and how much extra blue and UV-A is needed and though I've read a lot of interesting stuff it doesn't seem like a lot of research have been done on this. I'm sure some blue would be useful to increase lateral branching in veg and control stretch first 3 weeks of flower, but UV-A is a bit more vague https://chilledgrowlights.com/education ... row-lights
Buuut such a build requires quite a lot of studying and work having to somehow be able to control each color independantly witout having to have like 5 synchronized timers on multi extension sockets